0 (2s):
Boom, shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs On Fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. With great shows like Online Marketing Made Easy. Today we'll be telling the story of how a failed college baseball player created a 3 million email list management company. And today Fire Nation we’ll talk about money, we'll talk about building an email list. We'll get into how to increase deliverability and engagement and how to take things into overdrive if we want to grow an email list fast and so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Troy and our sponsors.

0 (43s):
The Goal Digger Podcast hosted by Jenna Kutcher is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Tune in and discover your dream career with productivity tips, business hacks, and so much more. Jenna's recent episode on four Questions. To qualify your digital product idea is a must. Listen, listen to Goal Digger wherever you get your podcasts. Troy, say What's up to Fire Nation And share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with.

1 (1m 14s):
Hey, what's going on? Thanks for having me first and foremost, as far as things that I like people disagree with, I think that's really important. I would say that you have to piss people off and there's been a lot of times, you know, I do email deliverability, copywriting, email list management. There's been a lot of times where I do something new that's disruptive and people tell me it's not gonna work. There's people telling me that in my certification program I am taking away all the clients for myself and other people and it kind of pisses them off. But it's done really well for me. And funny story the other day, my dad was like, how do you make these tos?

1 (1m 56s):
So I showed him what I do and as I was posting the video, he's like, you shouldn't post that. That's gonna make somebody mad. And that's how I knew that I should post it. So I kind of go off that theme. If I'm not making somebody mad, I'm not speaking my truth because when I speak my truth, the right people will come to me and the wrong people will be

0 (2m 14s):
Repelled. I'm a huge believer in the phrase Love me or hate me because there's no money in the middle. So Fire Nation, if you're playing in the middle, it's probably why your pockets are empty right now because you want people to love you or hate you because there's just no money in the middle. And just outta curiosity, what is that thing that you posted that your dad thought was gonna be offensive?

1 (2m 36s):
Yeah, that's a great question. So I was talking about why it's okay to call people fat. I know that sounds crazy or why it's okay to tell somebody that they may not be able to provide for the family if they have a problem and I have the solution to that problem, it is my duty to make them aware of the issue and what the negative outcome is gonna be and then inform them of how they can fix it and present them them the solution. That's my job. We all do it. Maybe not to that degree, but we all do it. That's business and that's helping people.

0 (3m 6s):
That's really random actually. And you might get a kick out of this because Fire Nation, we've had no previous chat about this whatsoever, but I'm actually working on a brand right now and I'm not sure exactly what I'm gonna launch it. But the brand, it's meant to be very niche and I own the domain and this is what the brand is. You Fat, I help. And the whole concept is me telling people, guess what? Everybody knows you're fat because you are fat. I'm cuz again, my niche and my avatar, my perfect clients a hundred pounds or more overweight. So there's no question that they're fat and they're obviously doing a lot of things wrong and I want them to know that I can help. And a lot of people are like, well that's just gonna offend a lot of people.

0 (3m 48s):
And I'm like, listen, I'm looking to take 10 men between the ages of 35 and 55 who are fats And I'm looking to help them. I, I know how to help them. I'm 42 years old, I have 11% body fat. I come from a very stocky and, and I, my father's overweight, my family's got obesity in it. Like I know how to remain fit as you age and I wanna help people do that. And I just wanna be blunt like, you're fat. I'm not calling you fat, you are fat. I wanna help. So it sounds like I could actually have a conversation with you about some email campaigns around that. Cause you might have some, some ideas.

1 (4m 27s):
Yeah, it, it's really funny that you bring that up because it was just yesterday that I posted that TikTok on that topic and it's so random. The truth is, if somebody gets offended if you happen to start coaching them, they would get offended during that process and that's not gonna be a good customer.

0 (4m 41s):
So they're not my people. Listen, I'm looking for 10 people at a time. It's a cohort. You know, I spent eight years as an officer in the army. Like I'm used to tough love and I'm gonna give tough love. Cause at that point, frankly they need it. I'm gonna save people's lives. And if people aren't willing to take a little, you know, have a little thick skin is the best way to put it, as I, I just, you know, take them through the truth, then that's, that's the process. But I wanna get back to the focus here. But thanks for letting me go on a riff area. Cause I think it's, it is so random about that and I think fire days, you need to be thinking about with your brands, with what you're building. Are you being a little polarizing? Are you being a little controversial, maybe a lot controversial? Are you making sure that people either love you or hate you? Cause I promise you, after 10 days, seven or eight of the people that I take through this are going to love me cause I'm gonna change their life.

0 (5m 27s):
And two or three of them, they might hate me and, and that's just the reality. But hey, I'd rather save seven or eight lives than not impact 10 lives whatsoever ever. And we're talking about email list management today and you went Troy from a college baseball player who dealt with both injuries and the YPs, which I need you to explain the YPs to our non-baseball players to creating a multi seven figure business in just a few years. Tell us that story.

1 (5m 56s):
Yeah, so in 2017 I transferred into a division two college as a pitcher. And I was supposed to be one of the better players on the team. 2017 I underperformed a little bit. Had, you know, not the best season. 2018 came back that fall after my coach told me I might get cut. And I made the team. I was the second best pitcher on the team that fall, spring rolled around. You know, I'm feeling great, I'm the man, I'm the guy they're gonna go to. I've been training for this moment since I was 12. This has been my life the past almost decade. And all of a sudden I couldn't play catch. And I actually had a Tommy John surgery, which is a year long recovery in high school.

1 (6m 38s):
And I had fought my way through that. And now I had these mental complications that were stemming from the surgery. And if you don't know what the YPs is, baseball players suffer from it. Golfers, pretty much anybody who has a simple motor skill and all of a sudden you can't do it the way you used to. So a golfer missing an easy putt, a baseball player can't play catch anymore. They bounce the ball. They

0 (6m 59s):
Didn't Chuck Knob block of the Yankees have some problem like throwing the ball from second base to first for a while.

1 (7m 4s):
Yeah, it's rare, but it affects the big leaguers too. Wow. You know, nobody's immune to it and I would not wish it on my worst enemy. That's the truth. Ugh. But it just tears you down because at the time my identity was so built into baseball and taking that away from me, I thought I had nothing. So fortunately for me, my other little interest that I had some time to pursue after I got cut from the team as a senior, so basically my entire identity was cut from me. I started looking into an online business and it was kind of fun. I took a course on Facebook ads, got a few clients off of Upwork and I was making about three, four grand a month at the time.

1 (7m 49s):
And then one of my clients wanted to fire me and I was like, Hey, why? Like, what's going on here? The ads are actually doing pretty good. You're, you know, you're getting a good cpl. And they're like, no, sorry, we need to fire you. And I was like, no, you're gonna tell me why. And they said, okay, well you know, the leads are getting, they're not converting after they get on our email list. So I said, okay, let me fix this. I have a little bit of experience dabbling, not exactly sure how to fix it and I'm gonna figure it out. So I put my hard hat on and got to work and over the course of the next few months, I took their email revenue from 13 K a month to 51. And it's safe to say that my job was saved and my role was shifted to email marketer essentially what I now call email list manager.

1 (8m 36s):
And all they were really doing wrong is all their emails are going to spam. They weren't sending enough emails and they're all just like way too simple and bland and boring. So since that day I shifted from Facebook ads to email list management where we handle email copy, deliverability and automations and that's, that's all we do.

0 (8m 54s):
Fire Nation, I really hope you're taking this in right now. I mean, where would Troy be if he didn't demand that answer? I mean he sat there and he demanded an answer and that answer led him down to the pot of gold. Like, like where are you not right now? Because you weren't willing to ask and demand an answer because that is what leads to gold. Now I wanna talk money because most of us currently have Troy or we're building an email list. So go through the best ways that we can make more money from our current email lists.

1 (9m 28s):
Yeah, so it's actually, you know, a a really simple answer at the surface. And I can get complex with a lot of things, but in simple terms it's, it's easy. It's like, first of all, most people have this weird block in their head called a mental block, money block, whatever, but they think that they're annoying people if they send too many emails. And the truth is that if, if you love baseball and I send you seven awesome emails per week about baseball that you love and they're right down your alley, I'm talking about your favorite team, I'm talking about your favorite players, you are not gonna unsubscribe from that. Now if I'm sending you crap that doesn't make any sense and it's irrelevant, then you might unsubscribe.

0 (10m 8s):
Yeah, and let me jump in here for a second. You cannot send me too many emails about Providence College basketball. I'm obsessed. Like you just can't. Like if I got one an hour, I would literally read it. So I just wanted to verify that and make you think about what, what is that for you Fire Nation. But keep going Troy.

1 (10m 24s):
Yeah, a hundred percent. That's a good point. We all have that thing. So while you're listening, just think about what that thing is or maybe think about like if you put yourself in the shoes of somebody who's on your email list, what can they not get enough of? So all you can do is you can just sign out a really simple email. It says, Hey first name, what's your number one problem or question about blank, where blank is obviously what you do. And then at the end of the email you just sign off and you say reply and let me know. And they will reply and they will tell you short, simple answers of what they want. Some people will tell you their whole life story and you just make like a tally sheet. Next couple things people say really, really easy gets great engagement, it's good for deliverability and you will never run out of ideas.

1 (11m 9s):
Doing that, I also have a log of all the weird crazy things that happen in my life. Weird dreams. I have things I think of and I even look on places like Reddit about the questions that are generated from the emails. And you get a lot of good topics that you can send about every single day. And that would be the first thing. So just sending more, cuz for some reason people think they shouldn't. Now for the second thing it would be deliverability. Now that's something that can get complex like I mentioned, but let's do a little example here. Combining the first example and the second example, let's say you send two emails a week and you're sending it to a list of 10,000 people and you have a 10% open rate.

1 (11m 51s):
So what that means 10,000 thousand people two times a week. So that is 20,000 and then you're gonna take 10%, that's 2000 people that are opening emails every single week. Now let's say we go even up to six times a week to that same list of 10,000. So now our potential reaches 60,000, but instead we have 20% open rates. Now we're hitting 12,000 instead of 2000. You ever think about it that way? You use six x to reach without spending a dime growing your list or really doing anything else. You just improved your deliverability and sent more emails. As far as deliverability goes, the easiest way to kind of see where you're at with that, just to open a brand new Gmail, account our Yahoo or whatever you prefer, and just send yourself a test email from your own ES P and just see where it lands.

1 (12m 41s):
So once you do that, you can see am I in the primary tab where I should be? Am I in the promotions tab, which is bad or am I in the spam folder, which is the worst. And when you see that, it really opens your eyes to how many people you're missing every time you click send and how much money you're costing yourself.

ZipRecruiter (12m 58s):
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ZipRecruiter (13m 39s):
And if ZipRecruiter can fill these roles, what can't they fill? Best part is ZipRecruiter simplifies the whole hiring process first. ZipRecruiter uses its powerful technology to find and match the right candidates up with your job. Then ZipRecruiter has an easy to use dashboard with a complete suite of tools that lets you filter, review and rate your candidates all from one place. Discover hiring Joy with ZipRecruiter, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter, get a quality candidate within the first day. See free yourself. Go to this exclusive web address and try ZipRecruiter for free. ziprecruiter.com/fire. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com/ire. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

Hubspot (14m 20s):
When's the last time you referred to the tech and software you use for your business as too easy? Eeks, it's probably been a while unless you're using HubSpot. HubSpot is a kind of tech that works and then makes it easy for you to do what every business should be able to do. Have immediate access to accurate up-to-date reports and data. Have a platform that allows your team to work together towards a common goal and to serve your customers at the highest level. If you're using tech that makes it difficult to access data or one that takes months, even years to learn how to use, then it's time to make a change. HubSpot's multiple hubs and 1000 plus integrations allow companies to adapt quickly, align their teams, and achieve adoption like never before.

Hubspot (14m 60s):
HubSpot leads the way when it comes to empowering teams to do their best work by eliminating friction with connected, easy to use tools. And HubSpot centralized platform lets you spend less time managing software and more time serving your customers. Learn how HubSpot can help your business grow better@hubspot.com.

1 (15m 17s):
Troy, we're back. And getting somebody to see an email can be such a challenge these days. I mean, people are so overwhelmed with emails and social media notifications and WhatsApp and sig, I mean all these things are happening to them all the time. Let's talk specifically right now about email deliverability secrets. I mean, you just went through the numbers before the break and that's really powerful Bec, but the reality is we can't make money from our emails if people aren't seeing our emails.

0 (15m 45s):
So what do we do?

1 (15m 46s):
Yeah, so the first link would be the test, like we mentioned before, the break and just seeing where you stand right now. So if you're in the primary inbox, that's fantastic. Obviously that's something on Gmail, most people use Gmail over half of most lists and that's a really good start. You just wanna make sure you test several emails to make sure they're all going there. Now, if they are all going there, that's great. You can start working on things like your offer, your subject lines or hooks and just writing emails that people enjoy so much that when they see one from you, they're gonna open it no matter what because they love your content. But if you don't see yourself in the primary inbox, the next step I would open the email and then up in the top right corner you're gonna notice three little dots.

1 (16m 29s):
When you click on those dots, you are going to in the dropdown box, click show original. What that's gonna do is it's gonna open up kind of like the Cody version of the email that you know the, the computer sees essentially. So the the normal email you see is like human, it's reader friendly and there's not a bunch of like machine stuff in there. So when you click show original, it's gonna show you pretty much all the data that you could ever want to see, but at the top you're gonna just pay attention to three things, dkm, spf, D a C. Now those things should all say pass, if any of those say fail or neutral or in some cases if your D a C doesn't even show up, that is a red flag because that basically means you are failing one of the three kind of verifications more or less.

1 (17m 19s):
So it's kind of like being verified on Instagram except it's for email. So if you're passing those three things, Gmail knows you're a legit sender and that they should trust you and that you are who you say you are. You didn't get hacked, you didn't get spoofed, none of that. So if it says fail, that's when you're gonna have to go into the DNS settings and go into your E S P and copy some records and frankly probably get help. I would recommend that if you're not familiar with DNS settings and email set up. But other things you can do as well. A lot of people know this one, it's very simple, segment your list harder. So if you're in spam, usually it's not because of a technical record, sometimes it is, but most of the time it's because you're sending to weigh too many people.

1 (18m 3s):
A lot of entrepreneurs build up a big email list. Let's say there's a hundred thousand people on it and you're like, wow, we spent all this time and all this money getting a hundred thousand people, I have to email all of them. Well the truth is, if half of them haven't opened an email in two years, they're probably not gonna open your next email. So you should remove them. So in that case, your open rate's doubled. Now obviously cool, your open rate's doubled whatever and it doesn't, you know, seem like it matters. But to Gmail it does matter. They care very much about what your open rates are, higher they are the more they trust you. So you just have to understand that you can try and reengage those other people later. But for now you have to solve the bleeding wound that is in your email list and your open rates are suffering from.

1 (18m 47s):
So you have to make sure you tackle that. And then on top of that, really just kind of getting out of the promotions folder if you're on a span, there's a lot of different ways that you can do that. Most people try to essentially tweak and neuter their emails and take out of the salesy words and phrases. What we do in a very creative way is we actually make the email a little bit longer with non-salesy words. So then for the rest of the email we can say whatever we want realistically or close to it and we can still have those sales messages, we can still use promotional words and phrases and we can still get into the main inbox. And as always, if you're not sure where you are in the process, you just send that test email and see where you are.

1 (19m 30s):
So that was a little email deliverability crash course, but hopefully it's helpful. Yeah,

0 (19m 34s):
I've got a couple questions and a couple things I wanna add, but really quickly, just go over very concisely that first part you, you said about checking the the D K I M or whatever that acronym was, like what did that look like again?

1 (19m 47s):
Yep. So in the top right corner of any email in Gmail, just open it up and then click the three dots in the top right. As soon as you do that, you'll see something that says show original, you click that and then towards the top there's this little like rectangle where it has like the subject line of the email and who it's from and who it's

0 (20m 8s):
Two looking at it right now. Yep.

1 (20m 10s):
And then underneath there it'll say spf, dki and D A C. So that is where you are looking to see if you are pass fail or neutral.

0 (20m 18s):
Got it. So I'm seeing pass, pass for, so SPF says pass, dk i m says pass. So those the only two you're looking at.

1 (20m 26s):
So there is another one called D A C. You probably just don't have it set up, it's recommended. It just adds an extra level of security so people can't spoof you. And spoofing is basically if I'm taking your domain and I am sending emails from your domain and pretending to be you. Now that's pretty hard to do in some cases. Sometimes it's kind kind of easy and it's scary given that I kind of know how simple it is for some people to more or less hack or spoof you, is it likely that they're going to do that? No, but if you have a big prominent brand like yourself, you know it is a possibility. So it's just something that Gmail and Yahoo and all the inboxes they like to see because they know that you are who you say you are.

1 (21m 9s):
And it's also just nice to have that security that you know your business isn't gonna get

0 (21m 14s):
Spoofed. I am subscribed to my own email list on one of my other like just basic Gmail. So like you know like John something, something, something you know at gmail.com. So I just opened up that one and my different email from my own CRM broadcast email. So I use Infusionsoft and I did that show original thing that you said. And under sbf, D K I M and dmar, they all say pass on that. So does like what? What is that exactly telling me? I mean, yeah, what is, what is that telling me?

1 (21m 46s):
Yeah, so you're good to go on your emails from Infusionsoft, that's what that means. So you don't have any technical issues that are gonna put you into the spam folder or the promotions tab. So you're good to go, you're all verified essentially from Infusionsoft to all of your recipients. Now on a personal email it's a little bit different, but it sounds like you are in pretty good standing as far as that goes.

0 (22m 6s):
So my other couple quick questions are, you didn't really talk specifically about this. How often do you recommend people pruning their list as far as like removing people who haven't opened, haven't engaged, haven't clicked, haven't done that thing. So I know you talked about removing them, but how often should we prune that a a list?

1 (22m 25s):
Yeah, so for me it happens automatically. Most ESB you can set up an automation and some of them keep track of this for you without you having to do anything, but you still have to decide who to remove. But mine's done automated. So essentially I am emailing everybody who has opened within the last three months. Now if you've never done this before and you're just emailing your entire list, just cut it down to three months as kind of a benchmark and then you can always go from there, right? So for me, I like to see a minimum 20% open rate because I know that Gmail and Yahoo and Hotmail are all going to be very happy with me if I'm at 20% or higher, you could go a few less, but I don't like to chance it under there personally.

1 (23m 7s):
Especially with iOS 15 being out. So let's say you've prune it down and you're only emailing people who have opened in the last three months and let's say your open rate is only 15%, well then maybe you take that segment into three months, you do two and a half months, or let's say you're at 25% and you wanna open it up a little more than you could do three and a half months instead of three months. It's you just have to tweak it a little bit so you hit 20%. Got it. Or higher.

0 (23m 35s):
Now something else that I wanted to talk about was CRM providers. Cuz there's sometimes people will talk to me, they'll be like, oh my god, I just wished to HubSpot and my email deliverability is like so much better than it used to be with Infusionsoft. Like I'm just using a random example. But have you found that to be the case? Are there better CRMs? And if so, which ones do you like the best?

1 (23m 52s):
So CRMs and ESP are all preference. My friend Yon once said, switching ESP and expecting better deliverability is a lot like switching gyms and expecting to be stronger. That one always stuck with me, but at the end of the day, the only ones that I really don't like are MailChimp and anything that's just going to annoy you on a day-to-day basis. Me personally, I love Active Campaign. I think it's really simple, I think it's robust. I think there's a lot of different features and automations that I can build. And overall they have pretty good IP addresses. I also like Campaign refinery, my friend Travis Ketchum has that one. They kind of hold your hand a little bit when it comes to deliverability and make sure you're doing all the best practices.

1 (24m 36s):
So if you're getting started and you're a coach or consultant, I'd recommend one of those two. If you are an e-com store, I would probably recommend Clavio, but at the end of the day, they'll, the reason that people see a a jump when they switch is because they're switching IP addresses. So that's basically like a virtual neighborhood where the emails are being sent from. So if you switch from one company to another, of course they're setting from a different IP and when you switch it, that can definitely make a difference. Now you still have to do all the other stuff, right? Otherwise you can end up right where you were. But that is why some people see a big jump.

0 (25m 9s):
So if we wanna take things into overdrive and we want to grow really fast with our email list, what's the best process

1 (25m 15s):
As far as growing the list? So two things. So one of 'em is you're not gonna get as much growth, but it's free. And then the second one is just, you know, tried and true growth. So first thing is, if you've kind of done all this stuff and you're paying attention to your deliverability and your segment sizes and you and you feel pretty confident that your list is safe and there's not gonna be any train wreck around the corner, what you do is you take your list of inactives, the thing we were just talking about before, and again, don't do this until you know you're hitting the main inbox. But here's the thing, when you fix that and you know you are going to the primary inbox, you might as well try and reengage some of the people who haven't opened in several months.

1 (25m 58s):
It it's worth a shot. And sending one email to those people is not gonna hurt anything. So what I do is I write up an email. I basically, instead of being from Troy Erickson, I'll send it from te, which is my initials, and the subject line will be remember me and then in the email essentially say, Hey, first name, this is Troy Erickson here, remember me, I'm the guy who teaches people about email list management deliverability. Maybe you've seen my anti ProTab service or my new email list management certification. I'm just reaching out today because you haven't open ended a while and I wanna give you a free bonus. So here we go. And in the future, be sure to look out for my upcoming emails and then obviously there's a link in there.

1 (26m 39s):
So that's what I say and I send it, and you'd be surprised, a lot of my clients who have never said it before usually gets between a 10 and 12% open rate, which again is not great, but it's one email and you're recovering 10, 12% of the people who are inactive on your list. So it's basically you're reviving the debt and putting them back on your list. And people love list growth and they ask me about that all the time. So I would recommend that. And then as far as growing your list, couple things to keep in mind. Quality is always more important than quantity. Everybody wants a really big list, but at the end of the day, you gotta make sure that they want to be there and they're excited. So anything with paid advertising is really good because those people are bought in.

1 (27m 23s):
Anything from like a podcast for example, is really good. Anything from an affiliate promotion or JV with a high quality partner is really good. Things to avoid would be just like buying list and doing things that you can't really tell where the person came from. Or if you're dealing with somebody and they can't really give you a straight answer on how the leads are acquired, you probably shouldn't do it.

0 (27m 46s):
So Fire Nation, basically, one of the biggest takeaways here is that it's not the right time for everybody right now, but that doesn't mean that every time that you're looking at them, you're saying, Hey, they haven't opened in a while. Like they hate me. It just wasn't the right time for them maybe. But if you send them an email and you remember, or you remind them of what you do, it might be the right time for them at that moment and boom, they're back. They're like, oh yeah, I'm kind of glad that he reminded me, man, I haven't thought about this for a while, but now's the right time. So think about that. Troy, if Fire Nation wants to learn more from you, if they wanna connect with you, give us a call to action.

1 (28m 20s):
Yeah, f aq email.com is my main link where people come into my world. What it is, it's a document where I've taken literally every single question about email marketing that I've gotten in the last few years, and I put all the answers inside this document. So whether you are a business owner or whether you're a freelancer who wants to kind of do what I do, there is a whole bunch of good information in there and all your questions will be answered when you read it, I promise. That's at faqemail.com.

0 (28m 49s):
Faqemail.com. Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with TE and JLD today, so keep up the heats, head over to EOFire.com, type Troy in the search bar. His show page will pop up with everything that we've talked about here today. Best show notes in the biz and Troy one more time, give us that call to action

1 (29m 10s):
Faq email.com will get you the email FAQ document that'll answer all your questions about email.

0 (29m 16s):
Boom. Fire Nation and Troy, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side.

1 (29m 26s):
Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

0 (29m 28s):
Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Troy for sponsoring today's episode and Fire Nation's. Successful entrepreneurs are great at three things, productivity, discipline, and focus. That's why I created the Mastery Journal so that you can mass report activity, discipline, and focus in a hundred days. And we're talking step by step. Visit the masteryjournal.com and I'll catch you there, or I'll catch you on the flip side. The Gold Digger podcast hosted by Jenna Kucher is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Tune in and discover your dream career with productivity tips, business hacks, and so much more. Jenna's recent episode on four Questions. To qualify your digital product idea is a must.

0 (30m 9s):
Listen, listen to Goal Digger wherever you get your podcasts.