0 (2s):
Light that spark, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network with great shows like Social Lets. Today, we’ll be breaking down lessons learned from selling over $1 billion worth of products through their written word. To drop these value bombs, I brought Stefan Georgi into EOFire Studios. Stefan is a Direct Response Corporator whose words have generated over a billion dollars. He's also an accomplished entrepreneur who has founded nine different businesses that have reached seven figures plus in revenue. In today Fire Nation, we'll talk about professional poker players and copywriters, what they have in common. We'll talk about emotional response marketing, why it matters.

0 (42s):
We'll talk about curiosity, emotion, persuasive communication and a big thank you for sponsoring. Today's episode goes as Stefan and our sponsors. Is this your year? Visit Thrivetimeshow.com/eofire to see how Clay Clark's business coaching has helped thousands of entrepreneurs to dramatically increase profitability. It's month to month and less money than an average minimum wage employee. Schedule your free consultation today at thrivetimeshow.com/eofire. Success story hosted by Scott Drey is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals success story features Q and A, keynote presentations and convos on sales marketing and more.

0 (1m 27s):
A recent episode on how to protect your business in times of crisis is a must. Listen, listen to success story wherever you get your podcasts. Stefan say, what's up Fire Nation? And share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with.

1 (1m 46s):
What's up Fire Nation? I'm super happy to be here and something I believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with is probably the idea that you need to hustle and grind and live on race and beans. And really you beyond that, that you have to burn the boats. There's a great Tony Robinson about like, you know, if you wanna go somewhere new, burn the boats, burn the effing boat. So I think you can actually dip your toes in the water and sort of try things out. And then if it's not, if you get back on the boat so you don't have to burn the boats right away, you can take your time.

0 (2m 21s):
I love that because frankly, the reality is sometimes you're gonna go down a path that's not the right path and there's no problem retreating going back to the beginning and saying, okay, I learned some things from going down that path. Let me adjust, let me pivot, let me strike out in a new direction. And today Foundation, we're talking about lessons learned from selling over a billion dollars of products through the written word. And the written word is copy is another way of talking about that Fire Nation. So I wanna know what professional poker players and copywriters have in common.

1 (2m 57s):
Absolutely. So the reason that's an interesting question is when I was 18, I started playing poker semi-professionally. I was a senior in high school and I would go to local Indian casinos in San Diego trying to make about $200 a day and was successful doing that. It was my first time kind of making money, like really making money doing something that didn't feel like work, I should say. And what I kind of noticed from playing poker regularly and, and continuing throughout my life to play poker is there's what people say and what people do. We wanna judge people and really interact with people based on not just what they say but their actual actions. So at a poker table, somebody may act very tell you that they're very calm and even keel and that the money doesn't matter to them and whatever it is, but when they lose a big hand or get unlucky and their body language changes and they slam their cards down and they get up and they cuss at you, you realize, okay, what they said and what they do is very different.

1 (3m 54s):
And when it comes to copywriting and persuasive communication in general is very similar in that you'll see people who your, your market may tell you that this is what they want. But if you go deeper and really look at how they're acting, what their actions are like, how they, how they interact with other products, how they, how they show up in the marketplace, like what they're buying, what they're saying on, on forms and, and like anonymous places like Reddit, you'll notice that what they say publicly and what they really desire, want and feel are very different things.

0 (4m 23s):
So Fire Nation, there's some really interesting correlations here. Now, one thing that I was kind of curious when I was thinking about this question was, is bluffing, does that have anything to do with the commonality here?

1 (4m 36s):
One way I look at that is people will actually bluff a lot less than you. You, and you think if you watch professional poker tournaments on television and things like that, most of the time people aren't bluffing. It's very rare that somebody's doing a stone cold, really ballsy

0 (4m 50s):
Bluff,

1 (4m 51s):
Right? We all think that's so sexy. They're like, oh, I had nothing. But that's actually very uncommon. And I think that the road of, of marketing and persuasive communication, copywriting, it's kind of the same thing where people are like, we're very skeptical, but, but usually like there, there's a lot of truth to whatever. Somebody who's selling you, usually people are selling you things for the right reason and, and yet we're so skeptical and our guards up so much. I think it's the same thing with poker where we're so like, you know, concerned people are bluffing us all the time. Usually they're not. And it's, it's the consumer is so scared that you're bluffing them when you're selling to them even though you're, you're not. And so I guess the thing becomes how do you overcome that objection and that fear and you know, whether it's in poker and convincing 'em that you're not bluffing and or that you are depending what you want, but also copyright and how do you kind of, yeah, get them to, to believe you.

0 (5m 41s):
So you believe that all entrepreneurs should understand the principles of direct response copywriting. First off, what is direct response copywriting and why do you believe this?

1 (5m 54s):
So direct response copywriting is really like the writing of of ads advertisements where we want our prospect, meaning our prospective customer, whoever it is we're communicating with, to directly respond to those ads, take an action. So it could be to click here, pick up the phone and call 1-800-WHATEVER text here to 3, 4 4 to get a 30 day free trial opt in for my email list, whatever it is. We're basically getting to respond directly to our ad. But the principles of direct response copy, it's really just salesmanship and print. And so I think everyone should have good sales skills because I think everything in life is selling on some different level.

1 (6m 34s):
Like you're selling ideas, you're selling yourself in relationships, you are obviously selling in business. And so the same principles that apply to the the written word really apply to many different areas of life. And I'm happy to give examples if you would like as

0 (6m 49s):
Well. Yeah, let's get some examples.

1 (6m 50s):
Cool. So the principles of direct response copy one is really focusing on what's in it for me and me. Does that mean me, Stefan or you John? But it means me, the prospect as then when the prospect is interacting with your copy. And I'll then translate this to broader marketing, but like really they're sitting there with the filter of like, what's in it for me? Like how do I benefit from this? How does this solve my pain point or my problem? Why should I feel connected? Right? And this is something that is in our copy. We can do this by even checking in like, hey, maybe you can relate, you know, I had this really difficult experience, I overcame it. Now I'm in a place where I'm helping others, but maybe you can relate, maybe you've had experiences like this before.

1 (7m 32s):
Have you ever felt this way? Like do you kinda get what I'm saying? Like just checking in. And so we're bringing them back into the conversation, whether that's in the written word or in a sales conversation, talking from stage like really you want to connect because what happens in the written word, but also I think in a lot of other areas is we start telling the story of ourselves or our brand or our product or whatever. And we, it's so interesting to us, we just assume everyone else is gonna find it really interesting too. But realistically, if you don't tie that story back to the prospect, make them feel like you're talking to them and have them see reasons why it's relevant and relates to them, you'll tend to lose them. You won't build as much of a rapport or connection and it ends up hurting you and costing you sales

0 (8m 13s):
Fire Nation. You don't wanna cost yourself sales. This is a key process to follow when it comes to direct response copywriting. And I wanna move into emotional response marketing. What exactly is emotional response marketing and why does it even matter? Stefan,

1 (8m 30s):
Great question. So I came up with this term, I dunno if I'm the first person to ever use it, but I'm, I'm really one of the only people using it regularly. And the way I look at that is if direct response marketing is getting your prospect to take a direct external action such such as clicking a button, calling writing in whatever emotional response marketing is getting your prospect to feel an internal reaction and it's an emotional reaction. And so why does this matter to your, your point or as you asked is because so much of sales and persuasion is emotionally driven. We speak to the the heart first and the brain second.

1 (9m 10s):
Jim Quick, who's a really smart dude, has a, a line that he, he mentioned one time when he was speaking live and I was there and he was like, human beings are not logical, we're biological. And I love that because they've done studies where if you have the part of your brain that processes emotion is severely damaged, you can't make decisions. So decision making in general is an emotionally driven process. So you just speak to like the heart first and then the heart will go try to convince the brain, hey, you know, like this makes sense logically here, here's the logic behind it. And so when we do emotional response marketing, we're really using storytelling, being really authentic, being vulnerable sometimes being honest and open with our community, with our market, whether it's our existing customers perspective, customers leads, whatever it is, we're building an emotional relationship and connection with them.

1 (9m 59s):
And when we do that, it's the whole no like trust thing. They're way more likely to buy from you and to be part of your ecosystem for a long time.

0 (10m 6s):
Fire Nation emotional response marketing and step. And I've never heard that before. So let's give you credit as a first person Thank you to come up with that. Yeah, for sure. Ation, if you think Stefan's even close at done being done drop value bombs, you got another think coming And we will be diving into those value bombs when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Are you ready to grow your business now? What if you could learn the proven systems and processes that have been used to grow thousands of multimillion dollar success stories at thrivetimeshow.com/eofire See how Clay Clark's proven business coaching has helped thousands of entrepreneurs to increase profitability dramatically.

0 (10m 46s):
Clay's proven business coaching program is month to month and less money than hiring a minimum wage employee. Sound too good to be true? Go to Thrivetimeshow.com/eofire to see thousands of documented client testimonials because Clay only takes on 160 clients. He personally designs your business plan for you. Then Clay's team of talented designers, videographers, web developers, workflow mappers and accounting coaches will help you implement that proven plan. See thousands of verify success stories and schedule your free one-on-one 13 point assessment with Mr. Clay Clark himself today at thrivetimeshow.com/eofire knowledge will not attract money unless it is organized and directed through practical plans of action.

0 (11m 29s):
Become the next success story. Schedule your free 13 point assessment today at thrivetimeshow.com/eofire. Are you looking for a place where you can exchange ideas, shared knowledge, and find invaluable mentors, co-founders and investors? Sounds too good to be true, right? Thanks to HubSpot it exists and right now you can get instant access to a community of 16,000 plus business builders at trends.co/mfm. Trends is a HubSpot community for founders and entrepreneurs that tells you what the next big thing is gonna be months before everyone else and delivers access to analyst, vetted business ideas and market signals straight to your inbox every single week. Inside trends, you also have access to live virtual business training in Q and A sessions that feel like MBA lectures where you can learn everything from advanced marketing techniques to how to get fundraising from venture capitalists.

0 (12m 18s):
A seven day trial of trends is yours for only $1 in a yearly subscription plus access to the community is $299 per year. Get a seven day trial of trends for only $1 at trends.co/mfm, that's trends.co/mfm. Stefan, you believe curiosity and emotion are the two key elements of persuasive communication. Give us an example of this

1 (12m 47s):
With curiosity. One good example is, is using what are called paradoxical questions. So I'll give you a couple examples of that. Like, so there's the famous French paradox where it's, it's like, hey, the French, they eat these creamy, buttery rich foods, they drink lots of wine, they smoke cigarettes, but they have some of the lowest rates of heart disease and early death in the western world. Why is that? And you stop and you're like, well, hmm, that's interesting. Why is that? They do I think about buttery rich gourmet French meals and I know they like their wine. Why? I wonder why their heart disease is so much lower. I'll give you another one. There's the one from from Pimsler, which is a language program. So it's like, hey, why is this so easy for a kid like a young child to learn a new language?

1 (13m 29s):
But it's so difficult for an adult. Yeah. Cause if you look at a kid, they just intuitively pick up, they'll, they'll learn English or whatever their, their native language is just by listening, right? Well why, why do adults have such a hard time? And you're like, huh, why is that? So you can basically take interesting questions like that, that are almost like teaser riddles, things of that nature, and get your prospective customer to stop, think, and engage their curiosity. And then by the way, there's a, the answer is, is is tied to your product that you're selling them. So with like the French paradox thing, it's like, well there's resveratrol and red wine that's been shown to have these anti-aging benefits. So hey, we have a supplement that has resveratrol in it.

1 (14m 9s):
With the pimsler thing, it's like, well the reason why kids learn so easily, it's because they're listening. Grownups are taught to, to learn a language by practicing speaking, but really you should learn like a kid. We developed a language learning program that teaches you how to learn like a kid. So there's the logical connection. We're gonna end up selling them based on that. But when we engage curiosity, it actually activates the dopamine circuitry in our brain. Like it starts, there's a anticipation. We're, we're naturally curious. This goes back evolutionary over a gajillion years. And so we, we we're naturally curious when we start to get teased like that, like the, the brain circuitry starts to fire up because we have the, the promise of a reward, which is the payoff of the knowledge or, or the answer.

1 (14m 52s):
And so what happens as dopamine starts to flow is our attentiveness increases and our focus and we're way more engaged, our mood elevates. So literally using curiosity, there's a whole neuroscience component to this of like really increasing the tension and focus. And as we do that more proactive and engaged prospects end up becoming more likely to convert into customers. And then with emotion, really it's a similar idea there when I, what I explained earlier with emotional response marketing, but also these emotional responses also release floods of dopamine in the brain. So it's the exact same thing there. So that's why curiosity and emotion are the two most important kind of elements for persuasive communication. And then direct response sales copy, Fire Nation.

0 (15m 33s):
At the end of the day, we're all human beings and these are human emotions. These are emotions that we all have at some day, week, month, year at some point in our lives. So why not use this two year advantage? And I will say, having talked to my audience a lot step and a lot of people see the value of hiring a copywriter, but hiring the right copywriter can be real tough to figure out. So give us some of the best practices that business owners can follow when they're looking for in hiring a copywriter that's right for them and their business.

1 (16m 7s):
Absolutely. This is a great question because it's such a big pain point for so many business owners. A few things that I would recommend. One is look at like, like to hire them for small test projects. Like, like say you wanna hire a full-time email copywriter, they're gonna write emails to your list of customers and and abandon card emails and like my budget's five to $7,000 a month and they can have, that's all great, but you're never gonna know how good someone is until you've actually hired them to do a project for you. So instead of immediately hiring, you know, going through that whole process, all of that effort, screening them or they culture fit, like hire some people that you think are potentially good candidates for one off projects where you pay them $50 for an email or a hundred dollars for an email and you hire them for a couple emails.

1 (16m 55s):
So that's number one really important cause you really need to see their work. It's like, and it's easier to do that because of the power of the internet. Another one is, I would look for copywriters when they're applying to, to work with you who provide custom samples cuz that'll also make it easier for you. And the smart ones will do it, most of them won't. They'll send you a link to their portfolio. But what happens is, let's say you have a painting business and you, you know, work with people in your town. You're a company that does home painting and some copywriter applies and they're like, Hey, here's a supplement like, like mail that I wrote for here. I work for a gym. But you're like, well how the heck do I translate that to my painting business? It's very hard for you to know. So the what you ideally, if you find the copywriters that are giving you custom samples that are actually for your business and they, it shows that they're proactive, they went and did research, they actually understand your business and, and your needs.

1 (17m 48s):
And so like when you see those people, they stand out really take note and it should make your life easier. Now you can, you can also ask them for custom samples. I kinda like to do it where you don't ask and it lets it weed out 90% of the people who are too lazy to do it versus 10% who do. But those are two really good best practices to start with. And I guess the third one would be, funnily enough, you want a full-time copywriter sometimes talk about it as like a full-time retainer versus like an employee. And that verbiage can make a big difference because a lot of these copywriters are so afraid of having the job and yet they want like a full-time job. They just don't like that verbiage. So that's a third one.

0 (18m 26s):
Very important and fascinating things, right? They're Fire Nation. And Stephen, I wanna talk about whether Fire Nation sells through the written work, through the spoken word, or maybe from stage. Can you go over three things that we can do to improve our sales and messaging right now?

1 (18m 45s):
Absolutely. So number one is make your opening as strong as humanly possible. That sounds kind of obvious, but what happens is a lot of times people do what's called throat clearing. Like we only have a few seconds to really captivate our audience and capture their attention to really want like a, a powerful, compelling opening first line. And this is true for a written ad, a Facebook ad, an infomercial. When you're telling a story from stage, you know, you, you look at like the difference between 10 years ago I looked at my father's eyes as he was dying of cancer and I didn't know what I would do next, right?

1 (19m 26s):
Which is basically part of my story. But that versus, hey, my name is S Stefan and I'm a copywriter and I've been doing this since 2011 and I was in Marble Falls, Texas at an outdoor school and then my dad got and like, and basically like, I can get you there, but if I just open up that really impactful powerful line, you're instantly pull it in. So that's number one, right? And, and especially online, if you look at a sales funnel, like the, the most amount of eyeballs are always gonna be at the beginning of copy because like, or beginning of the copy because like, like they all see it, right? And then as they keep going through the copy, they're dropping off, dropping off, dropping off. So it's like a, an inverted triangle or like a sales funnel. But it's the same thing with the amount of eyeballs that are on the beginning of the copy versus the end.

1 (20m 9s):
The most eyeballs at the start. So you need to start to be the most impactful part of it and to really pull them in, because I'll keep the highest percentage of eyeballs down to the bottom when you're actually telling them to buy and pitching them and all of that. So really, really, really strong opening is number one. Number two is generally you wanna keep it very conversational. Like I talk about the bar stool tests, which is like when you write copy or speak from stage or you're pitching or selling, whatever it is, it should feel as though, you know, you could be sitting on like a, in a bar overhearing a conversation between two friends. And even if you're just one way you're writing copy, it's just still feeling a conversation. So going back to what I mentioned about checking in, you know, can you relate, have you had an experience like that?

1 (20m 49s):
And maybe you're laughing, but this is how I felt, right? Even if you're writing, you can still say that you can speak directly to your prospect and there's very few exceptions, like B2B is, is kind of an exception. But even at b2b, I think we could probably speak a little bit more to the, the whoever the, the target is, like the cto, cmo, cfo, whatever. We can still, they're still humans, so we can probably even use a little bit more checking in with them than we think we can in B2B copy. But making it very conversational is, you know, number two. And then number three I would say is honestly like keep it short and punchy with like your senses. And remember that the average American reads at an eighth grade reading level after I think something like 13 words, reading comprehension is reduced by like 50% or more on average.

1 (21m 38s):
And so whether you are speaking to an audience from stage or you're writing copy or doing whatever, really simple, short, punchy senses, not using really big massive words unless you're doing a TED Talk at like Harvard or something, I don't know, like you generally keep it very, very accessible and you'll do better the more people can understand your message. It doesn't mean you can't have complex concepts, but try to explain them in a way that is very accessible to even a a seventh grader or an eighth grader

0 (22m 7s):
Fire Nation. A lot of powerful takeaways here. Your opening has to be strong. Like it's really gonna grip people, you've gotta make it conversational. Like I, I really feel like you want your individuals to feel like they're just having a conversation with you. And I love that kind of bar stool mentality there and step and I wanna end strong because you've dropped a lot of value bonds. So this entire episode, I mean we're talking about lessons learned from selling over a billion dollars of products to the written word. What is the one key takeaway that you really wanna make sure that our listeners get from this entire conversation today?

1 (22m 43s):
If I had one key takeaway, it really would be to put more emotion, authenticity, and vulnerability into your marketing and your content because that really is how you connect with consumers and how you have that no like trust thing happen. It's really how you build rapport. And it's amazing if people like you, they'll forgive you of a lot of your sins. And this is true whether we're talking about your sins being that the rest of your copy's not as good because like you messed up somewhere structurally, but they felt connected to you because of the beginning. If you make real mistakes as a human by having a real authentic emotional connection with your audience and your, whether they're customers or prospects, you just will go a lot further.

1 (23m 23s):
So I really think add more and inject more emotionality into the messaging that you're doing and it'll serve you very well.

0 (23m 30s):
I mean, Fire Nation, you should have passion in what you're doing. Just use that passion, be authentic, be genuine, just let it flow. And Stefan, where can Fire Nation connect with you? Where can we learn more? What call to action do you have for us today?

1 (23m 43s):
Absolutely. So, you know, I'm on on the socials and all that, like at stuff in Georgia, on Instagram and and Twitter. I also have a little giveaway for your audience if they go to spg.fund/research. So spg dot fund slash research, what that is is just the first module of my copywriting course, rbc, which is for research. And it's basically 23 emotionally driven questions you can ask when you're researching your prospective market or audience or you're gonna sell anything to anyone. And it helps you to really get inside of their head and it goes way deeper than just the basic oh, 50 plus $150,000 household income women who are interested in this and that.

1 (24m 25s):
It's like we'll get to like their hopes and dreams, their victories and their failures, all kinds of deep questions and where to find the answers to them. And this alone is a massive game changer for anybody who communicates the course costs like a thousand dollars. This is like one of the core modules of it, but I decided to carve it out. And anyone who goes there can get it for free.

0 (24m 42s):
Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with sg and JLD today. So keep up the heat, head over to EOFire.com type, Stefan, that's S T E F A N in the search bar, the show page will pop up with everything that we talked about here today. And one more time, Stefan, what is that? URL

1 (25m 2s):
Go. Spg.fund/research.

0 (25m 7s):
That's S as in Sam, P as in papa, G as in Georgi Fire Nation, you rock. And Stefan, thank you for sharing your truth with Fire Nation today. For that we salute you and we'll catch you on a left lip side. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Stefan for sponsoring today's episode, Fire Nation. Over the last decade, I've interviewed more than 3000 of the world's most successful entrepreneurs, and I created a revolutionary 17 step roadmap to your financial freedom and fulfillment. I put it all into my first traditionally published book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, personally endorsed by Seth Godin and Gary Vaynerchuk.

0 (25m 49s):
The Common Path to Uncommon Success is the step-by-step guidance that you need to achieve the lifestyle of your dreams. Visits UncommonSuccessBook.com. To order your copy today, and I'll catch you there or I'll catch you on the flip side. Is this your year? Visit Thrivetimeshow.com/eofire to see how Clay Clark's business coaching has helped thousands of entrepreneurs to dramatically increase profitability. It's month to month and less money than an average minimum wage employee. Schedule your free consultation today at Thrivetimeshow.com/eofire. Success story hosted by Scott D. Clarey is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals success story features Q and A, keynote presentations and convos on sales marketing and more.

0 (26m 38s):
A recent episode on how to protect your business in times of crisis is a must. Listen, listen to success story wherever you get your podcasts.