0 (2s):
Light that spark, Fire Nation, JLD here. And welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. With great shows like Duct Tape Marketing. Today we'll be breaking down from boobs to bankruptcy to billionaires to drop these value bombs. I have brought Matt into EOFire Studios once, the UK's biggest strip club operator. Matt was bankrupt by 28. Since bouncing back, he has gone on to invest over 500 million in UK businesses and helps other business owners avoid his prior mistakes. And today, if our nation we’ll talk about Matt's story, we'll talk about how to come back from losing everything with bankruptcy. We'll talk about shifting into business loans and how a business order can actually improve their chances of getting funded when they need it, and so much more.

0 (48s):
And the big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Matt and our sponsors.

Shopify (54s):
Yes, that's another sale on Shopify, the platform that simplifies selling online and in-person. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/onfire, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com/onfire to take your e-commerce business to new heights.

Outbound Squad (1m 12s):
Outbound Squad hosted by Jason Bay is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Tune in for convos with leading sales experts and top performing reps to help you land more meetings with your ideal clients. One of my faves, The Monthly app with Jason Ethan, where they share hacks, tips and tricks. Listen to Outbound Squad, wherever you get your podcasts.

0 (1m 34s):
Matt, say What's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with.

1 (1m 43s):
What’s up Fire Nation? Thank you for having me. It is a pleasure to be here. You know, when it comes to being successful, I'm not gonna say necessarily people disagree with me, but I think the big point people miss is that I truly believe you can't be ha you can't be successful unless you are happy. Now, that sounds really wishy-washy. And as we get to talk, you probably know that that's not my style with business. You I'm, I'm, I'm very, you know, I wanna do it. I wanna make the money. But I honestly think, unless you're happy, what are we doing anything for? And that's, whether it's business or sport, all the money in the world, all the medals in all the world. If you are not smiling from ear to ear, then I don't think you're successful.

0 (2m 21s):
Well, Fire Nation, as you heard in the introduction and maybe brought a little smile to your face, we are talking about going from boobs to bankruptcy to billionaires. And we're gonna learn a lot of great content around this topic. And I do wanna start, Matt, with your origin story cuz you have a fascinating story and we're gonna be getting into some of the specifics. But first off, how did you get your start in business?

1 (2m 44s):
Well, my dad was a businessman. You know, he, he was, he was an entrepreneur, he had his own business. So I guess growing up around that, you know, probably gave me that, that entrepreneurial spirit, because I guess I didn't know anything else. And I knew from a very early age that I was gonna be in business. I didn't know what I was gonna be in business doing, but I just knew that I wanted to be in business. I mean, I remember being, you know, 10, 11 years old and going to beds, you know, reading biographies of other entrepreneurs, you know, reading, reading business magazines. And I used to, I mean, as a teenager, I kind of bought every get, which quick scheme I, I toyed with every possible idea. You know, I used to go down to the market selling, selling anything.

1 (3m 24s):
I mean, I remember selling shows how long ago this one selling, selling inflatable inflatables with inflatable cushions on. And the first thing I decided I was going do to make my millions and meet the girl of my dreams was to trade a domain name, a web domain name to Natalie and Brunia. Now, I dunno if you know who she's, or I dunno if anyone listening to this is old, I remember, but about 96, it was the beginning of the main names. And a friend of a friend had just bought spice girls.com and he, and he was, you know, at the time he'd sell, he'd like sell email addresses so you could have like, you know, john spice girls.com and that's how he made some money originally.

1 (4m 15s):
Then he sold the name to the management team for a big six figure sum. I mean obviously this, this shows how long ago this was. And I decided, well, I can do the same and I can get a double whammy. I'm gonna go and buy natalie and.com who was a, you know, famous Australian singer and TV star at the time. And I was gonna go and sell that domain name back to her management team. And it would both make me money and get me to meet her and me and her and run off into the sunset together. So I bought this domain name for like a couple of, a couple of dollars online and I made a very little poor website to go along with it. And I rang up her PR team and told them what planned to sell, sell this to them. And they immediately hit me with, you're blackmailing us. We're gonna call our lawyers.

1 (4m 56s):
And I tried to explain to them I wasn't blackmailing, you know, I just got in there first. But long story short, they wouldn't buy it, they wouldn't buy it from me. So I ended up selling it to a fellow fan for about five pounds. And I, I never my millions or got meet Natalie, but I guess technically buying it for two, two pounds and selling it for pounds was quite a big ROI for a 16 year old. And, and then it was onwards and upwards.

0 (5m 21s):
I think that's impressive. I mean I was about the same age around that time as well. And I can remember going to my dad and being like, Hey, you should buy Red sox.com and celtics.com cuz that was like our local NBA and professional sports, both baseball and basketball teams. And honestly, I don't know where you were getting the stuff for $2, cuz back in those days it was pretty expensive to buy these domains for a year. It was like a couple hundred bucks. And my dad was like, what a couple hundred bucks? That is just crazy money. There's no way we have to re we have to pay that every year. And I'm like, no, believe me, it'll be, it'll be worth, it'll be worth it. I was like this, you know, 15 or 16 year, year old and he, he wouldn't do it. I didn't have enough money, you know, saved up to buy the own my own domains or enough, you know, actual, like I wasn't convinced that it was gonna work either.

0 (6m 7s):
I just thought that it could someday be worth something. I didn't realize that.com was gonna carry such strength, you know, in the years to come. Cause these were the early days. But it is kind of fascinating. You know, what we do when we're younger and you look back and you're like, man, if I'd only had a couple thousand dollars in the bank, you know, what could I have turned that into? Because turning $2 into 500, I mean that is insane roi. And I will say, we talked in the introduction about how Matt did own the biggest strip club, or he was the biggest strip club operator in the UK and you know, then some things happened and he was bankrupt by the time he was 28. But let's kind of step back a little bit here because many people would look at the strip club industry as unsavory to say the least.

0 (6m 51s):
So what made you enter this vertical?

1 (6m 54s):
Well, just backtracking a little bit before then. I mean the, the first the first proper business I got involved with was, was a business selling uniforms, like corporate clothing for bus, bus drivers and security guards. And it was a family business, not my family, but it was a business I'd been owned by a family and my dad actually invested in it. And I went to work in it doing some sales. And it was my first proper, proper job. I was 18, 19 years old when I left school. But unfortunately this business was a total disaster. You know, the, the family management team that owned it, they, they'd run it into the ground. They were, you know, best incompetent, worst fraudulent. And you know, my dad, he'd put a silent investment and he wasn't really interested to kinda get involved in the business and, and make it work.

1 (7m 37s):
So I'd home every night after, after work, you know, I still lived at home and I was kinda complaining at dinner saying, dad, this is ridiculous. You know, they're, they're stealing your money, they're not running it properly. And after a few weeks or a few months of me kinda drilling on at him, he finally gave in and said, you know what? I'm not gonna do anything about it, but I can't take your moaning anymore. You do what you want with it cause you can't make it any worse than they've done. And I literally went in the next day and fired everybody, fired everybody apart from this, this old guy who worked in the warehouse, actually a little old guy who'd done nothing wrong. And I to start that business effectively from scratch with customers who didn't wanna deal with us, suppliers, who didn't wanna suppliers, you know, bank banks who were calling in the overdraft, no staff, no morale, no direction, nothing.

1 (8m 22s):
And so I effectively really cut my teeth learning how to rebuild that business and dealing with every conceivable problem you can imagine. And that's what I did for three years. So my, my first grounding as a, as a a business owner, my first business educational experience was being thrown in at the deepest of deep ends whilst probably being on fire as well. And, and, and having, having to learn and deal with every problem. And for over three years, I think that business was losing about 300,000 pounds when I, when I got involved. And in, in its third year it was making 30 grand. Now not huge numbers, but, you know, but, but the, the principal and the turnaround for a, you know, for a 19, 20, 21 year old guy was, was obviously immense and it was the best training ground that I could possibly ask for.

1 (9m 6s):
But I also knew by that point that I was no longer interested. I was bored and I wanted to, I guess that that business needed structure and I wanted to go and do something that I enjoyed, which was always gonna feature in my future life as, as one of the key criteria for me choosing a business. So I wanted to go and get into bars and clubs, not not specifically strip clubs at that time, but just bars and clubs. And I went and open, I went and opened a pub, typical English pub, and I had two or three of them over the course of a year. And to varying degrees of of success, they were okay, but they were never making big money. And I realized the reason they weren't making big money is cause it was very difficult to make money from only selling liquor, you know, only selling alcohol alone.

1 (9m 46s):
We needed other streams of income. Now whether that was gonna be people paying on the door to come in or selling food or whatever it may be, we needed other income. Now outside of work, I used to, I used to spend 44 or five nights a week in the local strip club. And I knew the girls well and I knew the manager well and I'd been picking their brains on the business model deemed that because I was such a big fan of the strip clubs, that probably qualified me enough to go and open one. And I thought, I've got these, I've got these bars that are selling alcohol, but they need something else. I know lemme turn them into a strip club and I can kill two birds with one stone. And that was, that was how it first started in, in, in Wakefield in two four.

0 (10m 25s):
And you went from there to being the biggest operator of strip clubs in the entire uk and that's just a, a, a really quick climb to success. But then of course by the age of 28 it all came crashing down. So kind of talk to us about how that ended up happening, because to be honest, and a lot of people in the audience know this, bankruptcy can be very traumatizing, very hard to recover from. So as you tell us that story, kind of continue through that to how you mentally recovered from bankruptcy in losing everything.

1 (11m 1s):
Sure. Well, when I opened that first club, I think it was like March, April, 2004, it was, it was quite successful from the outset. You know, I I also making millions, but it, it certainly hit the ground running. And I knew I wanted to go and open more, but I also didn't have any funding to do anymore at that point. And I got introduced to a finance broker. I mean, I knew nothing about raising finance at that point, but I got introduced to a finance broker who, you know, was gonna show me how to get a loan on my air conditioning actually. So he went and got me some asset finance, you know, I basically signed a piece of paper and this paper said, we now own your air conditioning, but we're gonna, you know, give you this 30 grand and you can rent it back office. I was like, oh wow, that's, that's pretty cool.

1 (11m 42s):
What else can I, what else can I refinance instead of my air conditioning? And that, that, that introduced me to the world of finance. And I, and I used the assets of that first, first venue to raise finance and then go and buy the second venue and then by then I'd learn more finance tricks. And I used that to go and buy the third venue and basically over the course of the next three or four years, cuz you gotta, you know, anyone who can remember that time knows this was a very heated time of, of, of, of a, of aggressive money. You know, it, it was very loose with capital. You know, people wanted to borrow, lenders wanted to lend. And if you knew what you were doing, it was pretty easy to get your hands on money back then. And over the course of four or five years, I raised literally tens of millions of pounds, but I was completely over leveraged.

1 (12m 25s):
I didn't appreciate it at the time. And I kind of parlayed my strip clubs into normal clubs, normal clubs into, into shops, the shops into a property portfolio. So by the time I was, you know, 27, 28, I had, you know, this, this massive portfolio of businesses. I was, you know, I I thought I was doing amazingly. I was, I was living super well. And I guess, you know, I kind of felt like all, all my dreams had come true, but I was, I was very over leveraged. You know, the, the finance was expensive. The, the repayment terms were very short. And, and at the time, again, I never really noticed because it was pre-credit crunch, lenders kept giving more money. If I was ever short of money, they'd just lend me some more.

1 (13m 6s):
Which again, obviously knowing what I know now, I know it's a recipe for disaster. But as a, as a hungry 24, 25 year old, when, when lenders are kind of wanting to give me money, it almost felt like it made sense at the time. But in, in 2000 and in the beginning of 2008, the world was starting to change. You know, the, the words credit crunch had just been uttered and we all knew something bad was coming, didn't particularly know what it was. But I, I, I knew, well, two things happened. One is I'd been to some mainstream funders and they said that they were gonna refinance me if I achieved, if I achieved certain metrics. So I went away for the next six months and I achieved the metrics that they asked me to achieve.

1 (13m 46s):
So I came back in probably June of 2008. So right guys, I've done what you asked me to do, please, can we have this refinance? And that refinance would've, would've cleared all my short-term expensive debt and taken this from cashflow negative to cashflow positive. And if it happened, I probably wouldn't be Saturday now telling you this story. But the credit crunch had started, all these lenders had started to close their doors and they didn't wanna lend to us auto anyone back then. So I had no choice but to go back to my lenders and say, listen guys, I can't afford to pay you back over the period, over the period of time we agreed, I'm not asking you to, I'm not asking you to have any kind of bankruptcy or, or major delinquency from Mihir, but instead of paying you over two or three years, I might need five or six years or seven or eight years, you know, whatever I need.

1 (14m 29s):
But you keep charging me interest. Charge me some penalties if you need to, but you know, will can find a way to get out this together. Some people said yes, too many people said no. And for me it was, it was very much an all or nothing situation needed to happen. And these guys who were saying no was their, look, Matt, we don't need to agree anything. You've got your personal guarantee, so if the business doesn't pay us, you'll pay us. I was like, guys, I'm 27 years old, I've given about 45 million pound pounds worth of personal guarantees, you know, where do you, where do you think I'm finding this money from? But because even these guys who were probably half a generation older than me, they hadn't felt the bad times either, and they just thought, yeah, I guess thought I'd find a way to deal with it.

1 (15m 12s):
And they put, and they put me into bankruptcy. And the first, the first card started to fall down in probably July of August, 2008, literally two months after everything couldn't have been more swimming, first card falls down and, and, and not a knocks the whole stack down. And by September, literally three months later from, you know, from walking out that bank who said, look, we can't refinance you just yet, but still everything was okay in the business. Three months later, all the businesses had gone bankrupt. I've been declared personally bankrupt, and I was, you know, I guess I, I went to bed one night, a multi multimillionaire, woke up the next morning in a house with negative equity, with no business, with no income, a wife and a, and a one-year-old daughter.

1 (15m 55s):
So I guess following that onto, onto, you know, what you asked of how did I recover from that bankruptcy, you know, how, how, how was my mental health and, and or depression, whatever at the time. I can always say, I don't really have a, a soundbite to exciting answer here. I just always say, look, I didn't feel I had a choice, or I did have, I had two choices, but one just didn't suit me. You know, I woke up and I could have sat on the couch and wallowed in self pity and watched, you know, Jerry Springer all day. And, you know, and talked, talked about what could have been, or I could have gone out and gone back to work to make something happen because I had a wife and a daughter that needed providing for, and quite simply, I always took the view that I've gotta look after my daughter.

1 (16m 39s):
And I know that I wasn't born to be poor. So sitting on the couch and moaning about what's gone wrong, isn't going to, isn't gonna provide any solutions for me. I need to, you know, bite the bullets, swallow my pride and get back out there and start, start to work again. You know? Yes, it's not gonna be the same work as yesterday. Yes, my ego's gonna have taken a bruising, but if anything, you know, I can, I know how I achieved what I achieved last time and I can probably do it a lot quicker this time because I, I know the mistakes to avoid and I know, I know the shortcuts to take. And ultimately that's, that's what I did. I, you know, got up the next day, went, went back to to put some, I guess put some food on the table and, and started to build some income. And I just tried to do it, you know, a lot quicker and a lot faster than the time before without making the same mistakes

0 (17m 24s):
In Fire Nation. Having interviewed now 3,700 successful entrepreneurs, 99% of them have a story where they essentially lost it all. But they learned so much that, like Matt said, he knew he could come back and do what he did before faster because he knew the process, he knew the steps he learned from his mistakes prior. So these successes that are followed by failures, it's a very, very common story. The key here is to continue to take action and Fire Nation, we have so much more to talk about when we get back from thanking our sponsors.

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1 (20m 4s):
So Matt, we're back and you shifted your business into providing business loans, which is pretty interesting because you know, you had gone through, you know, the ability to get business loans pretty easily and you know, I mean that 45 million number that you shared is a huge number.

0 (20m 20s):
So you saw from the consumer side that side of the borrowing business and now you're removing into actually being the provider of these business loans. So talk about some of these common problems that you see with business borrowers. Cause I want my listeners to really learn from the experience you gained doing what you do, providing business loans and talk about those common problems that business borrowers are making time and time again.

1 (20m 48s):
I think one of the biggest problems that, you know, that, that business owners or business borrowers make is, is that they're very disorganized. You know, they, they don't have, you know, the clear information ready and available to them and also even more worryingly is they have no understanding of the finances of their business. And I can't tell you now, this is going off on a slight tangent, but I can't tell you how important it's for people to hear this, that when I get the details of a, of a business look at making a loan for obviously financial information, accounts, statements, cetera, cetera, those invariably gonna bring up some more questions that we want the answers to.

1 (21m 30s):
And when we go back and we ask that the business owner, you know, what is that on your PNL account or how is that there on your balance sheet? I guarantee nine outta 10. The answer is I don't deal with that. I've got an accountant who does that, or I've got a finance director does that, let me put you in touch with them. Now, I honestly think that is the gravest mistake that any business owner can make now, not not necessarily just in finance, you know, in any particular area, but especially in finance. I think the first thing any business owner should do, you don't have to be a trade accountant, but you've have a solid grasp of the finances. You know, you've gotta understand the difference between profit and loss and balance sheet, you know, the, the difference between profit and cash flow.

1 (22m 12s):
And if you can't answer simple questions on your, on your financial statements, then you know, best cases, you're not gonna be able to run your business as efficiently as you should be doing. And worst case scenario is you're gonna be getting robbed in some way from a, you know, from an unscrupulous finance director or business partner or someone who has got more knowledge than you. So what I, you know, one of the biggest mistakes people make is not understanding those figures and not being able, not being able to present them. So, and, and I also think, you know, so many business owners are are very over optimistic when when it, when it comes to what, what their figures are, you know, that, that they're, they're unrealistic. Ultimately all the lender wants to know is, is two or three very simple things.

1 (22m 53s):
They wanna know why do you want the money? They wanna know how you're going to pay it back and they want to know if you don't pay it back, what is their route of recourse? You know, what's, what's their backup plan to get paid back? And as long as you can answer those three questions, those three questions pretty clearly, then you're very much on your way to being able to raise a business loan

0 (23m 13s):
Fire Nation. I hope you're understanding this process because when you go through the need of getting a business loan, there's some problems you can avoid by knowing these things prior. And there's a lot of people that are listening right now, Matt, that I'm sure are saying to themselves, well, what if I really do know that I need a loan for my business? Like, what are the things that I can do to improve my chances of getting funded the right way? What would you share with them?

1 (23m 39s):
So like I just said, you know, the, the, the two or three things a lender wants to know is what you want the money for, how are you gonna gonna pay it back and what's their recourse if it goes wrong? So when you put your loan proposal together, you want to be answering those questions as, as clearly and, and, and demonstrably as you can so that, so that the lender knows exactly what's going on. You know, what is your business doing? How does it make its money? If you put, if they put money into it for you, what is that gonna make your finances look like? You know, is is it going to grow something and therefore that's going to make it easy for you to repay it back? Or if you make a mistake, is there any, is there any fat in your business? You know, is there any support in there to, to be able to make payments, you know, during, during bad months, you know, during, during slack times of income?

1 (24m 23s):
But if you can, if you can demonstrate your financial information to answer those questions, then you, you know, you are effectively doing the lender's job for them and you know, you, you're looking very professional, which is, I guarantee you that is more than you can say for 90% of of business loan, business loan propositions. So you wanna have up to date financial statements, you want to, you want to support those financial statements with bank statements. You know, you, you want any, any supporting information, you know, such as contracts or documents that, that can put this whole thing together. And aside from that, I think one great piece of advice that anybody should listen to is you need to understand your personal credit profile and you need to work on it if it's bad.

1 (25m 4s):
Now people will always say, why do I need good personal credit? This is, this is a business loan. And the answer is twofold, really. One, nowadays most lenders will want some kind of personal guarantee from you as a lender, as a, as a borrower anyway. Now, you know, whether that's for the full value of the loan or partial is gonna depend on circum circumstances, but chances are they're gonna want some kind of personal guarantee. So they're therefore going want to understand what your personal credit profile looks like. But almost more importantly than that, even if they don't want to guarantee, they want to see how you operate as an individual, because how you operate as an individual is probably going to dictate as how you operate as a business owner.

1 (25m 44s):
And if they look at your personal credit reports and it's showing that you've got bounced payments everywhere, that all your credit cards are, you know, couple of hundred dollars over the limit, or you, you, you're missing payments and making it up a couple of days later, even though the net effect of that might show that you're, you're still solvent and you still got a lot of money. What it's really showing is that you're disorganized as an operator. And, and when any lender's gonna lend money, if they've got the choice between lending to someone who's organized and who makes their commitments on time and someone who's disorganized and doesn't make their commitments on time, it's pretty obvious, you know, which, which direction they're gonna earn.

0 (26m 21s):
Fire Nation, tons of great content from Matt here, A person who's really been through the ringer, come out the other side, went to a really interesting industry in niche, succeeded there and is now sharing his knowledge, his experience, his value. Matt, what's the one thing you really want Fire Nation to get from our conversation? What's that final value bomb?

1 (26m 43s):
I think, think for me, you know, the most important thing and I that I've learned over the years is the importance of a mentor or you know, someone that you can absorb information from. And I think when you listen to all this, all the stories I've been talking about over, over the last 20, 30 minutes, you know, really I've been talking about making mistakes because I didn't know better. And what I, what I try and do now when I provide business finance to people is that as well as giving them money, I give them support as well. And I just can't overemphasize how, how much smoother your business journey can be, how much more stress free it can be when you can take advice from, you know, from people who've already already trodden in the steps that you want to go.

1 (27m 23s):
So whether, whether that mentor is a, a real person, you know, whether that mentor is, is is a book or you know, an Instagram account you want to follow, you know, just do everything you possibly can to absorb information so that you don't have to make the same mistakes that people who went before you did.

0 (27m 39s):
Matt, if Fire Nation wanted to connect with you, if they wanted to learn more, what is the best way they can do that? What's your call to action for our audience today?

1 (27m 49s):
So you can get me on all things social, I'm The Matt Haycox, that's Matt Haycox. I also have a podcast, which is the Matt Haycox Show, and you can listen to that on, on all the places you normally listen to your audio or watch, watch the video versions on YouTube. And I have a website that brings all of this together where we talk about business finance, you know, business problems and, and everything in between. And that's www.matt-haycox.com.

0 (28m 18s):
Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with MH and JLD today. So, keep up that heat and if you have direct questions for Matt, find this episode on the podcast app. Post the comment, get the conversations rolling, eofire.com. If you just type Matt and the search bar, the show us page will pop right up with everything we talked about. And of course, you're a podcast listener, Fire Nation, so listen to the Matt Mattocks show. That's his podcast. Matt, thank you for sharing your truth, knowledge, value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute your brother and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank

1 (28m 55s):
You for having me.

0 (28m 56s):
Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Matt for sponsoring today's episode and Fire Nation. Over the last decade, I've interviewed more than 3000 of the world's most successful entrepreneurs, and I created a revolutionary 17 step roadmap to your financial freedom and fulfillment. I put it all into my first traditionally published book, the Common Path to Uncommon Success, personally endorsed by Seth Goden and Gary Vaynerchuk. The Common Path to Uncommon Success. It's the step-by-step guidance that you need to achieve the lifestyle of your dreams. Visit uncommonsuccessbook.com, order a copy, you'll be on fire, get you there, or on the flip side.

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Outbound Squad (29m 50s):
Outbound Squad hosted by Jason Bay is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Tune in for convos with leading sales experts and top performing reps to help you land more meetings with your ideal clients. One of my faves, The Monthly app with Jason Ethan, where they share hacks, tips and tricks. Listen to Outbound Squad wherever you get your podcasts.