0 (1s):
Boom, shake the room, Fire Nation JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs On Fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network with great shows like being boss today, we'll be focusing on how to make money on Airbnb without owning property to drop these value bombs. I brought Jon Bell and Julian Sage on the mic. They teach people how to build a six or seven figure business on Airbnb without owning property. And today foundation, we'll talk about why Airbnb is changing the game for real estate, where most people fail with Airbnb investing. How can people learn more and so much more? When we get back from thinking our sponsors customers want more from brands, delivering more means owning the customer experience, taking control over data acquisition analysis, creative and delivery.

0 (50s):
Klaviyo calls this owned marketing, and they believe it's the best path to growth for more visit Klaviyo.com/fire that's KLAVIYO.com/fire from tools that help with automating your emails, increasing sales, gamification, and more. It's never been easier to create an online course than with the Thinkific app store. Learn more and sign up for a free trial of Thinkific at Thinkific.com/firefree. That's THINKIFIC.com/firefree. So what's a Fire Nation. We have John and Julian joining us today, and we're going to get to hear both of their backstories before we dive into some real detail about Airbnb and all its awesomeness.

0 (1m 37s):
And let's just start with Jon. And Jon, why exactly did you quit buying real estate and instead build a business without owning property? What's the deal with it? Well,

1 (1m 46s):
It came down to a couple of the very important things were let's talk about cashflow and just being able to generate that cashflow. Of course, you know, the old way is to go in and buy a multifamily and, you know, rent it out and possibly make four to $500 a door if you're lucky and go about it that way. Well, I found something short-term rentals specifically that allowed me to go out and still do the same thing with the same property, but I can also accelerate it by going out and still renting other people's properties and then pulling in somewhere around 1500 to a thousand dollars a door for that same apartment. And then I would have great tenants, right?

1 (2m 28s):
I'm not looking at those tenants that are just going to kind of mess up the place and they're not there longterm. The place stays absolutely great. It was the best thing that I've found. And I could, I could 10 X, what I would do with flipping a home. If I had $40,000, let's just say that was four units, four units, a $4,000 generated a month. I couldn't do that with a regular multifamily leases or rents or anything. That way

0 (2m 55s):
It's really important stuff Fire Nation to think about the new world that we live in right here. I mean, Kate and I went on a 90 day European trip where we stayed at 17 different Airbnbs over the course of those 90 days and various European countries. I mean, we're talking all the way from Italy, all the way up to Scotland and everywhere in between. And I'll tell you, we went in, they were nice. They were neat. We stayed for four days, five days, max, we left the place nice and clean, and they got a very high rate for that. Because again, we were just short term renters. We were in, we were out and then I'm sure the person was coming within a couple hours to take our place for the next little short run.

0 (3m 35s):
And this is a world that we can now live in. When you have a tool like this, that allows you to really make things happen. But John, I want to ask you real quick before we pass it over to Julian. You know, obviously Robert Kiyosaki he's still alive, but if he was dead, would he be spinning in his grave hearing you talk about this stuff? Absolutely

2 (3m 53s):
Not. Or maybe so if he didn't take advantage of it, you know, actually I did read, he's got a new book and he's talking about not owning a real estate, so maybe he's already hit. Maybe that's the new message.

0 (4m 6s):
Hey, one thing I know about Robert and this is legit is he is always learning. He's always educating himself. He's always saying what's the best thing now. And he's not afraid to change his mind when he knows his time too. So that's cool stuff. Now, Julian, you, as I mentioned in the introduction as well, went from this struggling entrepreneur, and now you've found success through Airbnb management specifically. So tell us that story.

3 (4m 32s):
I'll give it a little pre context. There's, there's two different strategies that, that we're talking about here. What John is talking about is this concept called mass release investing or rental arbitrage. And the whole idea there is that you don't have to own property in order to benefit from it. And just to give kind of a little backstory with myself, you know, I, you know, I'm a, I'm a military guy. We don't get paid a whole lot. And I actually got started in real estate in entrepreneurship, you know, listening to guys like yourself, John listening to Andrew Warner from Mixergy, Pat Flynn, Smart Passive Income. So that's really what got that fire in me to even get started on this entrepreneurial journey. But what I realized with entrepreneurship is a lot of, a lot of the things that people talk about or that they tell you to get into entrepreneurship for.

3 (5m 15s):
It costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time. You know, I went to, I actually started and tried to develop a mobile cook. And when my dad had cancer, I wanted to create something to be able to help him. And I had no clue. I, you know, I just listened to shows like yours. I got inspired. I thought, man, I can do this, but it cost a lot of money. I spent over nearly $20,000 to develop this cooking app. And then I was never able to finish it because it just started costing so much. So I honestly, I, I decided to quit entrepreneurship, just get my degree and stay in the military, but it wasn't on sale. My wife and I bought our first house season. This thing called the VA loan. So I didn't didn't require like any, any large down payment or anything like that.

3 (5m 57s):
So it's one of the benefits of being in the military. But I bought this house and I was trying to save money because living in DC, it's really expensive. You know, the rents over here, it's like over $2,000 a month. And you know, my wife said to me, she said, you know, why, don't, why don't we try to rent out the basement on Airbnb to try to save some money. And this little entrepreneurial light bulb kicked in, I had that buyer come back and we decided to rent it online and quickly realized that it was able to cover the cost of the mortgage. I was, I was blown away, you know, being able to make $2,000 a month off of a basement unit. And I wanted to find out what are more people like, are there people that are doing this at scale? Because from what I've heard, when you buy property, you, you might make a few hundred dollars, but that's not a sustainable way.

3 (6m 43s):
And it's not an easy way for someone that's not making a lot of money. So I went online, I started looking for people and I actually found John, you know, in a Facebook group. And I decided to interview him and through my podcast. So I started interviewing him. I interviewed other people and quickly realized that there's so many people, there's hundreds and thousands of people that are making a living on without owning property. One of the models that John, like I said, utilizes is this model called master leasing or rental arbitrage where you're essentially just leasing apartments. So you don't own the property. But another model that I actually started utilizing to be able to increase my cash flow was a co-hosting or property management.

3 (7m 24s):
So I would actually find other property owners that had invested the money, had the time and put all of that into property. And then I would just manage it for them. And then I get a commission based off of managing the property the same way. Like I manage my basement unit. And again, that that's called co-hosting and that's one of the strategies that, you know, I'm really excited to share as well.

0 (7m 44s):
I love just talking about new concepts like this and financial. It's not like it's even super new because listen, I mean, Airbnb has been around for a bit, but now you're getting to this place where you're having people like John and Julian who are just really figuring out how to do it. Right. And as we talk about on this show, success leaves clues. So listen to their success, follow their clues and you make things happen. And I love the fact that, you know, now that I've been hosting entrepreneurs on fire for a decade, I've interviewed over 3000 successful entrepreneurs. You know, I'm getting more and more guests on the show who literally were inspired by the show to go launch their thing. Now we've become massive successes over the years. And now I get to interview them, you know, before it was like in the early days, I was like having to interview people would have been successful five years prior.

0 (8m 29s):
I even started the podcast doing something completely unrelated. So Julian, thanks for sharing that part of the story. That was super cool. And I'm really proud of what you've accomplished. And of course, you know, as a fellow combat veteran, I thank you for your service brother, and let's just keep it with you right now. Why Julian is Airbnb changing the entire game for real estate?

3 (8m 50s):
I think it just goes back to that idea that Airbnb think of Airbnb kind of like as a platform. So the same way that Amazon is a platform for people to be able to build a, that it disrupts the e-commerce or disrupts the retail brick and mortar industry, the same way that Uber disrupted the taxi industry, YouTube disrupting traditional media, Airbnb is changing the way real estate is done because now it completely opens up a new market of being able to leverage real estate. Like John was talking about before, where you'd have to purchase a property and then rent it out. Now you don't even have to purchase property anymore. You can, you can just short-term rent it. And there's so many different creative ways that you can leverage the power of short term rentals, utilizing platforms like Airbnb.

0 (9m 36s):
So Fire Nation, and we're going to take a break. We're going to thank our sponsor. But when we get back, I'm going to have John answer this same question about why Airbnb is changing the game for real estate. We're going to talk about where most people fail. Like where are people going wrong when it comes to Airbnb investing and so much more. When we get back from thanking our sponsors as entrepreneurs, we have unique expertise and goals. But one thing that we share in common is a desire to shape our business the way we want. And if you've ever thought about online courses, let me tell you from experience, they need to work for your business. Introducing the Thinkific app store, the first app store, for course, creators that lets you build your courses your way. If you're looking for an easy to set up platform, that's built for entrepreneurs that gives you the ability to create an online course that will look and feel like part of your brand.

0 (10m 23s):
And that gives you an experience where you can pick and choose the right apps for you and your business. As you scale, then look no further than the Thinkific app store. The course creation options are nearly limitless. Create certificates, coupons, live lessons, private courses, and more in Fire Nation. You're invited to try it out for free for 30 days right now, visit Thinkific.com/firefree to sign up and get started on your online course today. That's THINKIFIC.com/firefree. Are you working around the clock to build the business? You always imagined. Do you want to communicate with your fast growing list of customers in a personalized way, but also in a way that gives you time to work on the rest of your business?

0 (11m 5s):
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0 (11m 46s):
That's KLAVIYO.com/fire. So Jon, we are back brother and SATs before the break, I want to pass the same question back to you. Why is Airbnb changing the game from real estate and maybe even walk us through how you came up with this real estate arbitrage idea that you're now using so effectively, let's take it to

2 (12m 8s):
The examples of disruptors in the space. I mean, we got Uber when it came around, people were kind of like, oh, you know, taxis and app and they don't own cars. Then there was, you know, Lyft that kind of came along and did the exact same thing. Amazon not necessarily owning any products that first, but still being able to make a lot of money. Airbnb does the exact same thing. They actually list properties, but they don't own them. So that's why I liked rental arbitrage. I can have the property, I can get it listed on one of these platforms or multiple platforms and I don't need to own it. I'm just taking their model down to the finer level and then using that to compound my cashflow.

2 (12m 53s):
That's why I think it's a biggest game changer in this space. Just any business that doesn't necessarily have to own things, to still generate a high amount of revenue, I think is great.

0 (13m 4s):
How are you finding these owners? Like what strategies are you using to identify the properties and talk with the owners? And what does that communication look like? You know, talking

2 (13m 13s):
To the owners is probably the most difficult part of the business. I mean, it's conversational, of course you want to talk to the right person upfront, but it's really just exposing exactly what you're trying to do a full disclosure and to at least allow them to come back with some of their objections. So then you can kind of come back to them and say, Hey, this is how I resolve this. Objection. Of course, most people, when we talk about Airbnb, they say, oh, that's the party place? Nope. I don't want a party house. Well, we do certain things to fight against that. Like we make sure we have cameras, we have noise monitors. We are not trying to end up on the news because that hurts our business. We want to provide a space similar to you that you went to when you were traveling clean, comfortable, where you can cook, where you can really just relax and treat it as if it's your home.

2 (14m 4s):
That's what we want to do. And we want to focus on.

0 (14m 7s):
So what ways or strategy do you use to first identify homes that you might approach?

1 (14m 13s):
I mean, it's really understanding the market. Airbnb is one of these places where it's not necessarily a city that you have to be in, like it's an experience-based platform. So maybe you have a tree house. Maybe you have a tent in the middle of the woods. Maybe you have an apartment in the city or a home in the city or a lakefront home. All of these properties can kill it on Airbnb because when you play up the experience, people will come just for that experience itself. COVID has taught us that, Hey, social distancing and people wanting to get out of the cities out to those spaces that are spread out, those places have seen major growth.

1 (14m 55s):
And it's still the experience that those people are going for a while looking for the comforts of home. So this

0 (15m 3s):
Is really interesting Fire Nation. You're looking for unique, special experiential properties and John, once you've identified a property. So to say, what is the next step for you? Like what steps have you successfully taken to identify who owns that property? How to contact them? What does first contact look like? It's as simple as Zillow,

1 (15m 24s):
Zillow has a lot of information that you can just find. And if I'm really going to an apartment building, I don't need too much more information than the management company that's there. And pretty much try to book a tour. I'm going to go try to go talk to one of the managers that's there and I'm going to just, again, let them know exactly what I want to do, how I'm going to do it. And I'm going to talk as if I am really interested in as many apartments as they have available. In most cases, I am, we can take them one by the twenties at any given time. So that's sometimes is a good outlet for them. It's a win-win relationship when it really works out great.

1 (16m 5s):
And you fell their occupancy, they get their regular market rent. So they're not charging anything extra, but in some cases you might work with a smaller owner and they want a little bit extra because they know you're going to be making extra. It's really about relationship building. I'm going to digest the numbers. We use tools like air DNA. We also just paralysis other sites like Airbnb and HomeAway. And we look at competitors within the space. We see what they're charging. We look at their calendars and we try to set a mark for ourselves on, Hey, we know we're going to outperform because this person is lacking in this area or we're going to be right on par with this other person.

1 (16m 46s):
Maybe we can charge the exact same nightly rate.

0 (16m 49s):
Well, the objection from property managers who might come back and say, well, well, we can just put this up on Airbnb. Like, what would you say to that? Well, you

2 (16m 57s):
Can, but I mean, it's also if it's can walk really, but they have to start somewhere instead of just kind of standing up and walking from the first day, you gotta crawl. You gotta go through all these different stages. I've already gone through them. We have definitely experienced almost everything that you can experience within the business with over a thousand reservations and multiple apartments, multiple cities.

1 (17m 26s):
There's so many things that can kind of happen when you're doing this business. And the, one of the biggest missed understandings is one. It's not real estate. This is more hospitality than it is real estate. And some of those people come in with the real estate mind and they think, Hey, I get it listed. People come, they pay me money. It's not quite like that. And that's normally the first failure.

0 (17m 47s):
I mean, one thing I will say that was pretty cool as some of those Airbnbs that I stayed at, they literally were offering upgrades. They're like, Hey, do you want us to have like 10 K-cups waiting for you? Like, we'll go pick those up first. Like, do you want me to pick up from the airports? Like here's my rate. And they were all super reasonable and it all made sense, but you know, they were all making margin on those things. So people that were really doing these Airbnbs right, were opening my eyes up to like, wow, you can really layer in additional expenses. And so now, like, of course you're going to be booked out because you can afford to be one of the more reasonable places in the area that still looks great. And then you layer in all these additional hospitality experiences and now you're, you're making as much or more money as those higher price places that are just getting that one flat rate.

0 (18m 28s):
So Julian, let's flip it back to you brother, where do most people fail when it comes to Airbnb investing?

3 (18m 36s):
Well, I think maybe just kind of piggybacking off of what John said or what you said, John, John, John, John Lee Dumas, was that a lot of people they think like, why don't I just go out and do this myself? And that's probably where most people fail, where they think that they can just go out and try to do things on their own, whether that is leasing a property and then, you know, starting a hospitality business or, you know, turning their own property thinking I'm just going to, you know, I own this property, let me furnish it and then try to manage it myself. I would say that's maybe one of the biggest failures people getting into this business and not realizing like how much, how much systems and how much process is involved. I know John really didn't talk too much about it, but you know, he comes from an it background.

3 (19m 16s):
I'm an it myself. So we're very systems and process oriented. So, you know, trying to reduce a lot of the friction that is in this, this business, because again, this isn't a real estate business, this is hospitality. But for the owners that are interested in getting into this business, we do try to make this a win-win situation. So people that are interested in furnishing their property, they want to maximize their rental income by turning them into short-term rentals. They can partner with guys like ourselves who run the business, who operate and manage properties. So that way they're actually able to increase their cash flow. And just to kind of give you some numbers, because, you know, I do like things to kind of be a little bit more concrete. Let's say a property owner rents out their space for $2,000 a month.

3 (19m 57s):
If they decided to, let's say, you know, let's say the mortgage on that place is like, you know, 1700. So they might be able to profit, let's say $300, but let's say they decided to short-term rent it. They could potentially, you know, make, let's say $4,000. If they're making $4,000, we'll charge our management fee. So let's say that's 20% for managing the property. So we'll make eight, $800 essentially. So $4,000 minus the 800, that leaves 3,200. That means they made a potentially a bound. Is it somewhere in between like 12 or $1,400 of profit that they, that they wouldn't have made? They maybe they only made $300 if they long-term rent today.

3 (20m 38s):
But as a short-term rental, they're able to essentially three or four times that, and they don't even have to do any of the work themselves, which is why, you know, the, the manager management model, the co-host model, it's such a powerful strategy because the landlord is able to increase the revenue. They don't have to put, you know, they they're the ones that are investing their money. They purchase the property, they purchased the furniture. And then we just take our experience, our expertise and manage it for them. They're able to profit. We're able to profit. And it's, it's really a win-win

0 (21m 4s):
John, I'm loving this stuff. I know you're loving this stuff as well. Julianne breaking down the numbers like he is. That's what we love to see curious. So, John, do you have any other areas that you see? Most people just continue to fail when it comes to Airbnb investing, it's starting

2 (21m 20s):
Out and doing furnishings. Everybody thinks that they can go out and buy cheap furniture and charge a high nightly rate. And that just doesn't work. Right? You have a value category that you need to add to every stay and your value needs to be equal to the interpretation of what the person is going to pay and what they expect. Of course, using words like luxury are sometimes used so loosely that it can be interpreted the wrong way. But sometimes when you walk in the door, you can tell, Hey, this is a nice place because they got nice stuff. Or when you sit down on the couch and it starts to wave all side to side and I paid $500 a night, I'm probably going to be a little upset about that.

2 (22m 4s):
So people think in a lot of cases that, Hey, I don't need to put a lot of money into a property to get a big result. In in fact, you kind of do

0 (22m 14s):
Julian, anything you want to add to what Jon just shared.

3 (22m 16s):
I want to create a brand. And when people stay at a property, you know, I'm sure that there's going to be different categories. So let's say you might, some people might prefer to stay at a motel, six other people would rather stay at a Trump hotel. Some people want to stay at, you know, the, the Marriott, everybody has a different style, even Marriott and it's its self has so many different brands because the caters to so many different types of people. So one of the things that I commonly hear is, you know, how it's oversaturated, there's too many people in this business. Well, look at hotels. I mean, hotels, all they are is providing a room. You know, they don't have anything else. It's just a square box. But that square box is very different. And hotels have been in business for, you know, centuries.

3 (22m 57s):
They've, they've been around since the beginning of time, but that square box, it's not the box. It's, it's the brand, it's the style. It's, it's what makes up that property. And that's really what we're doing here. So you can invest, you know, very minimal. You could, you know, go Ikea and try to furniture that way. And you know, you might be the budget friendly place, or you might spend a little bit more money and you might be the, you know, more expensive place or you might cater your place to traveling nurses or to family travelers. And you might be, you know, the more family oriented place. And then just the subtle nuances between each of those, those properties, each of those styles is going to have so much. So there's the, you know, what, what I love so much about this and really, you know, what, you know, I think is, is kinda core to like the, the, the Fire Nation belief was that there there's, there's so much opportunity out there.

3 (23m 45s):
And I really hope that people realize that you can get into this business. You don't have to own property anymore. It's not oversaturated because there's so much opportunity for you to be able to be an entrepreneur and create the things that you want to create. Yeah. I, I, I hope, I hope people understand what I'm trying to say here.

0 (24m 1s):
And you've gotten Fire Nation fired up. Like, I wouldn't be honest. You and Jon have gotten Fire Nation fired up. So how the heck can they learn more? That's the way

3 (24m 9s):
It would be to go to shorttermsage.com, backslash fire. We have a, you know, people, we have a free book that they can pick up. There's no, no shipping and handling anything like that. It's completely free as well as a podcast. So, you know, like I said, in the beginning, you know, JLD was that you, you really inspired me to get into podcasting. And that that's really what I started to do was to talk to guys like Jon, pick their brains, find out, you know, what is the successful people doing? And just really model that. And after talking to, you know, a hundred, a hundred successful hosts, being able to take that knowledge and then put it into a book with the strategies that you know, myself and Jon have learned, and we decided to give that away for free. So again, that's a shorttermsage.com backslash fire.

0 (24m 55s):
I really hope you're understanding what Julian's breaking down here. I mean, he wanted to surround himself with the right people. He launched a podcast or talking to the right people. One of those individuals ended up being John. They are now rocking it in a business together. I mean, this is some really exciting stuff. When you make the decision to take action and surround yourself with the right people. So I'm going to start with you, John, then we'll have you go Julian, as far as giving us the one key takeaway from everything John, that you've been talking about so far in this masterclass, what's one thing that you really want to make sure Fire Nation gets before we say goodbye.

1 (25m 29s):
A lot of people think it's a fad, right? Everybody wants to kind of just go out and do it, but doing it professionally is a completely different thing. If you're not going to really kind of immerse yourself into the industry, you do need help. You do need either somebody to co-host with you, or you need somebody to actually hold your hand through training or whatever that you can arm yourself with to make sure that you're doing it the right way. There's so many other things that can kind of hit you in this business. Of course, this is kind of day by day and you're dealing with people. So it's kind of difficult sometimes dealing where people, because there's multiple different personality types, the joys of this business is you make money daily.

1 (26m 12s):
And that is one of the most exciting things that I have actually experienced is when my phone goes off, I really like it because I know, Hey, I'm either closer to some money or somebody has paid me some money and I'm making it within the next night or so. So that's what I love about the business. Julian can definitely add on to that. There's so much here. I mean, if you really want any more information from us, you can definitely find us on shorttermsage.com and everything that we do there. We do a lot. We have multiple different companies. Oh, Julian,

3 (26m 44s):
It's not easy. I thought that when I first started listening to your podcast, JLD was that this would come so easily. I'd start my cooking app and then I'd be become successful. You know, it's, it's a long process, but I, you know, I realized that surrounding yourself with people that are successful in where you want to be, rather than just going out and starting that cooking app on your own, or going out and starting that property on your own, you can really shortcut your learning curve. You can save yourself so much time and, you know, hopefully by you succeeding and being able to achieve your goals through coaches, through mentors, you know, you'll be able to shortcut that learning curve and, you know, be able to do the thing that you want to do, which is, you know, for me, was being able to spend more time with my, with my dad and my family.

3 (27m 28s):
You know, I wish I'd learned that lesson sooner, but you know, I'm, you know, I'm just grateful for where I am today though.

0 (27m 34s):
Wanna actually double down on what Julian said, cause Fire Nation, it's not easy, but guess what? It's hard. And what I mean by heart is it's hard to build your dream business. It's hard to build something that's is providing real value and a message and a mission out there to the world. But it's also hard to be broke to be living in your parents' basement. It's also hard to be waking up every morning and not being inspired to do what you want to do, but what you have to do, you know, it's hard living a life where you feel unfulfilled. So why don't you choose your heart? Why don't you choose the heart that you want? And it's either building a business of your dreams or it's the other heart that we just talked about. And the best part is you get to choose.

0 (28m 15s):
And of course your Fire Nation. So we know his choice. You're making John Julian, you guys rock the mic today. And Fire Nation knows that they're the average of the five people they spend the most time with. And you've been hanging out with JB and JS and JLD today who keep up that heats visit shorttermsage.com/fire shorttermsage.com/fire. Get that incredible gift the Julian talked about. And of course shorttermsage.com has all the information that John was mentioning and real quick, Julian, what's the name of your podcast?

3 (28m 49s):
The Short Term Rental Success Stories or a Vacation Rental Machine. It's the top, top two podcasts on iTunes. If you just look up Airbnb, just type

0 (28m 57s):
In Airbnb Fire Nation, the top two ones will pop up. It seems like Julia's been listening to me on how to have the right keywords for your podcasts. So congrats on that. And of course you can head over to eofire.com and type either Jon or Julian in the search bar. And the show notes page will pop up with all the links, but one more time, shorttermsage.com/fire. That's your call to action, Jon, Julian, thank you both so much for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today, for that we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Hey, Fire Nation today's value bomb content was brought to you by both John and Julian and Fire Nation. I've created a treasure trove of free courses for you.

0 (29m 37s):
I teach you how to podcast road mastermind create funnels. Come up with your big idea you need to do is visit dot com slash resources to start learning today. I'll catch you there, or I'll catch you on the flip side. Customers want more from brands delivering more means owning the customer experience, taking control over data acquisition analysis, creative and delivery, Klaviyo calls. This owned marketing, and they believe is the best path to growth for more visit Klaviyo.com/fire that's KLAVIYO.com/fire from tools that help with automating your emails, increasing sales gamification in more, it's never been easier to create an online course than with the Thinkific app store.

0 (30m 19s):
Learn more and sign up for a free trial of Thinkific at thinkific.com/firefree. That's THINKIFIC.com/firefree.