John: Light that sparks, Fire Nation. JLD here with an audio masterclass on how to build an insanely successful therapy or coaching practice. And to drop value bombs, I’ve brought Dr. Chloe Carmichael. She’s a top-notch psychologist who appears regularly on national TV and other media. She helps smart clients crush their personal and professional goals on a daily basis. And today, Fire Nation, she’s gonna help us do just that. We’ll be talking about so many great things, you’re not gonna want to miss it. So, we’ll be diving in right when we get back from thanking our sponsor. Dr. Chloe say, “What’s up?” to Fire Nation and share something interesting about yourself that most people don’t know.

Dr. Chloe: What is up, Fire Nation? I am so excited to be here with you, John. I love your show and it’s really actually kinda surreal to be here. So, something about me that most people don’t know is that I actually had my first job when I was 11. I was picking blueberries as a little entrepreneur; I got paid by how many blueberries I picked, and I think it set me off in my entrepreneurial track.

John: I love picking blueberries. I used to live on a lake in Maine. We had those little Maine wild blueberries, and I would pick them and then I would sell them to my neighbor. But by selling, it would just mean that I got to eat the blueberry pancakes that they would make. That’s what I did.

Dr. Chloe: Yumm, perfect.

John: So, Fire Nation, as I mentioned in the intro, we’re gonna be talking about how to build an insanely successful therapy or coaching practice, and we have Dr. Chloe here to drop some value bombs here today. And, Dr. Chloe, as a psychologist, how is what you do with entrepreneurs different from a business coach?

Dr. Chloe: John, that’s an interesting question because there is a lot of overlap. So, as a clinical psychologist, I have six years of training after college in learning about how the brain works, personality, motivation, attention, all of that kind of stuff, which I think is a really big factor in success coaching.

And so, with business coaching, a lot of the work, which I also do, is just helping ppl to break things down, like how do I get from point A to point B, and how do I get some small steps in the middle, and how can we give someone encouragement and excitement to help them stay on track?

And then, what I do as a psychologist is, I layer in some of that knowledge about how the mind actually works and cognition and attention and focus, and what we call goal attainment in the field of psychology, works.

John: Goal attainments, I’m gonna steal that one, Dr. Chloe. But I will give you credit twice, I promise. But I do – really love that phrase. And one thing that I think is pretty cool and why I was excited to have you on the show is that you appear regularly on national television, so – it’s not an easy game to break into. So, share with us, break it down, so to speak, how you broke through the TV barrier and started getting featured on all these different types of television outlets.

Dr. Chloe: Sure, yeah. That’s one my most exciting things that I actually never really expected to happen. But it was kind of a process of building. So, when I first started my practice I went to the website, many people might know it, Help A Reporter Out, HARO. And for like $50 a year or something you can set up a profile there, and journalists will start putting up when they need a quote and you can submit a quote to them.

So, I started doing that because, really, I don’t think any TV person is gonna call you if haven't at least appeared online somewhere. So, first thing I did is start getting quoted online, and then I actually started shooting some videos of myself and just putting them on my website on a page that said drchloe.com/press.

And on that page, I put all kinds of keywords about how “Dr. Chloe loves the media, if you’re a journalist looking a quote,” and then lots of keywords about what I had been quoted about. And then, I also started putting links to all of the places where I had been quoted, so that if a journalist was saying, “Oh, I need a psychologist in New York City. Where can I find one?” my page would pop up.

But then, to be totally honest, John, the way that it actually, finally happened, although I think all those things helped a lot, the way my first TV appearance came about is VH1 Love and Hip Hop had a rap star, and they wanted that rap star to talk to a psychologist. And I do think that part of the reason I came up in his search in the first place is for all the reasons I just mentioned. But then, he openly admitted that he chose me at first because he found me attractive.

So, that’s another thing I would say, though, is that if you do wanna be on TV, make sure that you do get a really professional photograph of yourself and you put it on all over your website and you have those videos of yourself where you show that you can look good and handle yourself on camera.

John: I love how things with Entrepreneurs on Fire seem to kind of come in batches and themes. And it’s really interesting because it probably doesn’t come up in a couple years on Entrepreneurs on Fire, but HARO has now come up three times over the past three weeks, which is so cool because it’s actually how I got my start. I approved the concept of Entrepreneurs on Fire by using Help A Reporter Out, Fire Nation, by saying, “Hey, who wants to be on a show interviewing entrepreneurs?” 460-odd people responded.

I said, “I have enough people for a daily show.” So, it’s a great tool for how Dr. Chloe is talking about using it, and I use it in a different way. And you just, Fire Nation, have to put things out there in the universe. And a lot of people talk about how psychologists actually shape people and shape entrepreneurs, but how does working with entrepreneurs, Dr. Chloe, actually shape you as an entrepreneur?

Dr. Chloe: That is a great question, John, and it is actually such an honor to work with the entrepreneurs that I do work with because I actually work with many entrepreneurs that are much, much, much more successful than I am.

And so, sometimes even just learning about the types of issues that they’re having and where they’re getting stuck – because sometimes they’re coming because maybe their business is going really great but they’re having trouble getting their family on board, or they’re having some kind of situation in their personal life that’s pulling their attention, or they’re having interpersonal issues with employees, or certain areas where, even though they may actually know more about business than I do, they still wanna come to me because I have this background knowledge of business.

And so, while I’m helping them with their kind of personal side that’s affecting their business, I’m also learning quite a lot about the way that they are thinking about and growing their business. And then, if I’m working with someone who’s a more junior entrepreneur than where I’m at, I love being able to share with them about my personal kind of bumps along the way and how I was able to keep my head up and keep going.

John: One thing that I definitely recognize over the last seven years of interviewing entrepreneurs and talking with entrepreneurs is we have a really hard time getting into and then staying in the right headspace for success. It just seems like we battle ourselves with this over and over again. And what I love about you, Dr. Chloe, is that you have some great tips for helping entrepreneurs do just that. So, break those down for us.

Dr. Chloe: Sure, John. I’ll give you my top four here. So, the first one is that definitely you have to have a good support system. So, whether it’s getting your family on board or having a really strong support network, like I’m actually in Entrepreneurs’ Organization where we have that small group and we meet every month. And so, you have a small group of people that has your back, and so that’s really important to have that support.

Also, it’s important to have those clear goals with action steps that are written out, like “Phase one,” “Phase two,” “Phase three,” with every little sub-step underneath it. And not only does that keep you organized and save your cognitive energy so you don’t have to kind of re-invent the wheel every time that you think about what you should be doing at any given moment.

The bonus thing is that it lets you choose which one of those tasks is best suited to your energy. So, I do a lot of my own videos for consumers, and I’ll shoot those videos when I’m feeling high- energy. And then, I’m also under a book deal contract with Macmillan on my work with high functioning people, and when I’m feeling kinda pensive, quiet and I just wanna be at my computer, then I’ll go work on my book.

But when you have all of your tasks laid out in front of you, that’s the best way to do it. Another tip that I think is helpful for entrepreneurs is to keep visual reminders around your office or your space. Not only of your goals, so why you’re doing what you're doing, whether you wanna buy a beautiful dream home for your family or send your kids to college – so, keep those visual reminders of your goals, but also of your past successes. So, that way, if you have a bump, you don’t lose perspective and forget about all the really big, fantastic things that you’ve already done.

John: Fire Nation, just a few of the things that Dr. Chloe was talking about. You need to have that good support system. You have to have a clear goal with action steps. That’s why I say discipline is so key; being a disciple to a plan of action, Fire Nation, and then, guess what? You just execute. And have those visual reminders not just of your goals but of your past successes as well to be like, “Oh, yeah. I did that. That’s cool.” Now, Dr. Chloe, I would love for you to define empathy, as you see it, for Fire Nation. Define that word for us. And then, does empathy actually play a role in entrepreneurship?

Dr. Chloe: Yes, John. So, empathy is such a big buzzword these days. So, just in a simple nutshell, empathy is the ability to put yourself in another person’s shoes and try to think about and understand things from their perspective. And the reason why that is so important for entrepreneurs is because, no. 1, it actually helps us to better attract customers. So, one reason I think my practice has done well is because I was able to think about and understand a lot of the reasons that potential therapy customers were getting stuck and not coming to therapy or not coming back.

You have to be able to put yourself in the client’s shoes and understand what it’s like from their perspective so that you can solve their problems. Also, it helps you to motivate and retain your employees. The better that you can kind of get inside of their head and understand what their day is like, the better you can kinda actually nudge their day and shape their day the way that you want it to be.

John: Empathy, Fire Nation; understanding things from other people’s perspective. Think about that. It’s key, it’s critical, it needs to be part of what you're doing day to day, in and out. So, talk to us about the “Profitable Practices” program for therapists that you designed. I’m really curious about how we have these different areas of expertise and how you kinda brought it all together in this program.

Dr. Chloe: Yeah, thanks John. So, I’m really excited about the “Profitable Practices” program. It’s for therapists and coaches. And I just made some on-demand videos, which is fun; it’s like 10 of the areas that therapists and coaches tend to want information about so that they can grow an insanely successful therapy practice. And then, there’s some group coaching stuff as well because, to that point, we were just discussing about the need for a support network, which by the way, Fire Nation is obviously a great support network –

John: Woot, woot.

Dr. Chloe: – too. There’s some really great group coaching stuff and listservs and – but I also just found that so many therapists and coaches were contacting me on LinkedIn and stuff saying, “Hey, can I pick your brain for coffee?” “How did you do this?” or “How did you do that?” So, I said, “Why don’t I just put it all up in some videos and make it on-demand?”

John: One thing that's so key, Fire Nation, is that support system that Dr. Chloe just mentioned when she was kind of going through the earlier question is you, Fire Nation, are that support system like she just mentioned. That’s what we do on social media; that's the support that we have, and that’s why Dr. Chloe went ahead and said, “Hey, I could go ahead and just have these one-on-one conversations, I could get my “brain picked” every single day, or I could create an overarching program so that I could just point people to when they come to me with these questions.”” So, if people wanted to learn more about that, Dr. Chloe, where would they go?

Dr. Chloe: Thanks, John. Thanks for asking. I actually have a special giveaway for your listeners. So, since you like the phrase goal attainment, they can go to goalattainment.com/fire, and right there, they can either get a really good deal on “Profitable Practices,” or I also am giving away for a dollar a video of some my top tips for all entrepreneurs, whether they are coaches and therapists or not. So, they can go to goalattainment.com/fire.

John: Goalattainment.com/fire. Fire Nation, get over there, check it out, that gift is for you. And if you think Dr. Chloe’s been dropping value bombs, you’re right, and we have many more coming up after we thank our sponsors. Dr. Chloe, let’s be realistic with Fire Nation. How quickly could one turn into a successful therapist or coach?

Dr. Chloe: Super, super, super quick. So, I feel like that’s one of the myths that people think, is that it has to take really long time. And I’ll tell you, I got my license to practice psychology right around the month of May in 2012, and I was literally full six weeks later. Again, back to the whole empathy standpoint. At the time I was working at a firm that helps to pair executives with coaches and therapists.

And so, I had a lot of experience trying to understand these executives and what they needed in a coach or in a therapist, and that it was my job to go try to find them the right therapist or coach and pair them up. And so, by doing that, I learned all of these things that coaches and therapists are inadvertently doing that’s making it difficult for the clients to actually wanna see them. Like, maybe they have a really weird photograph online, or maybe the way that they describe their business is kind of a downer; maybe they’re just hard to reach, whatever. There are just all these different reasons.

And so, by me learning all those kind of hold-ups for the year that I worked at that firm, by the time I got my license I just simply made a website and had certain parts of my structure in place. And I was shocked. In fact, I remember going to my boss, and I had been trying to negotiate them into giving me a raise when my license became active, and they were trying to push me off and be like, “Yeah Chloe, we’ll talk about that in six months.”

And so, I can’t tell you how much pleasure it gave me when I approached them like six weeks later – actually, I quit only three weeks after getting my license, and I was full in my private practice six weeks later. But after just three weeks with my license, I was already making as much in private practice as I was on salary for them. And so, it gave me a lot of satisfaction when three weeks after I got my license, I said, “You know what guys? You don’t have to worry about it anymore because I’m sorry, but my own private practice is now taking off so I’m gonna be giving notice.” And –

John: Nice.

Dr. Chloe: – so it can happen fast. It can happen really fast.

John: You’ve been very successful, and you do share some of those reasons why, but give us some other reasons that you’ve really attained the success so quickly and in such a big way.

Dr. Chloe: I think that one thing that helped me a lot as well is getting really honest feedback. So, that’s something that a lot of therapists and coaches in private practice don’t get the opportunity to get, is a client will just come see them, and then if the client doesn’t come back, they don’t know why. And at that place I mentioned that was working before, I did get the opportunity to get feedback because I would also provide short-term therapy and coaching while I was finding someone the right long-term fit.

So, getting feedback is helpful, and I did not wanna lose that when I started my own private practice. So, what I did when I started my private practice is, I approached two or three different people and I said, “Hey, I'm starting a private practice and I wanna make sure it is on fire. And so, I’m gonna offer you a package of six sessions with me for absolutely no charge. But what I want you to give me back in exchange is I want you to give me detailed feedback; after every session, let me know – if you're coming into my office, I want feedback about my office, if we’re seeing each other online, I want feedback about that experience.

I want feedback about if I’m listening to you enough. If I’m not talking enough and you wish I’d give you more feedback or if you wish I would listen more.” I really solicited feedback and I think that that was a big one. Also, I notice a lot of therapists and coaches tend to kind of describe what they do in terms of the client’s problems, which is understandable because they’re trying to let the client know, from an empathetic perspective, that they understand the client’s problems.

But I – they would actually tend to do better, I think, if they would just talk about it more in a positive, solution-oriented manner. I’m also personally not a big fan of the thing a lot of coaches do, where they charge a big huge monthly retainer and the client is locked in. I think a lot of good business people understand that, of course, they're going to be with you for a period of time if you’re providing value, but they start to get kind of nervous about getting locked into a long-term expensive contract with someone that they’ve never even had the chance to work with.

A lot coaches will say, “Oh, well, I give you the first month, and then after that you’re locked in for six months.” But that, I can tell you coaches, if you’re listening, that still makes clients nervous because they’ve had the experience of working with a therapist or coach who’s really on fire for the first few months, and then gets a little bit into a rut or something like that. So, I think that giving clients a lot of freedom and a lot of latitude helps a lot.

John: Feedback is key, Fire Nation, because if you don’t ask, you will never know the truth, and Fire Nation, the truth will set you free. It is the only thing that’s gonna allow you to improve as a human being, as an entrepreneur, as a businessman or woman. You need to get honest and open feedback. That’s why I love what you did, Dr. Chloe. Now, let’s be honest. Humans make mistakes and we are all humans. So, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see new therapists or coaches making?

Dr. Chloe: I think that sometimes they actually, inadvertently, make it really hard to reach them. And I know it’s difficult because they feel like they can’t afford to hire a receptionist or something like that when they’re just starting out. But what they forget is that, if you wanna work with what we call in psychology, high functioning people, which means intelligent, driven people that already have at least a basic amount of success in their life, those people are busy.

And so, when you call most therapists or coaches, they don’t pick up their phone because maybe they’re in session or whatever. So, I just feel like whether you even Google and find those services of receptionists that will pay by the call or something like that just to pick up your calls, that’s really important, or – I actually was even consulting for a really nice private practice in LA, and it says on their website, “Do you wanna talk to us? Fill out this contact form and we promise we’ll get back to you in 48 hours.”

And I told them, “Guys, come on. If you’re trying to tell the world that you cater to busy, successful people and you're a white glove, concierge type of high-energy service, when those clients call, you have to pick up the phone or have somebody else who does. And if the clients are e-mailing you, then you need to get back to them within three or four business hours, or at least have an online booking system.”

I also feel like a lot of these people, they get really bogged down with payments and paperwork. So, I would just urge them to get eSign type stuff and get autopay. Free these clients from the admin burden. I actually feel like, when therapists or coaches put a bunch paperwork and admin burdens on clients, that’s when the clients tend to drop out.

John: Fire Nation, if you believe in yourself, invest in yourself. And the reality is if you’re doing anything in this world, believe in yourself. So, invest in yourself. Now, Dr. Chloe, getting motivated, it can be easy, but staying motivated can be so difficult. So, how can therapists and coaches stay motivated when they're starting out or trying to reach these new big milestones they’re setting for themselves?

Dr. Chloe: One of the things that I would encourage them to do is to have a big, long wish list because Rome was not built in a day. Now, I realize I am saying that, yes, you absolutely can get really busy really fast. But as you do get really busy really fast, there’s gonna be probably other things that – about building and growing your practice that you don’t necessarily have time to do right away. So, I would keep a big, long wish list of all of the things that you want to be doing, whether it’s polishing your HARO account or setting up your newsletter list.

And frame it for yourself as a future to-do list, and even consider planning it out over the course of a year so that your motivation doesn’t suffer because you feel like there's just so much that you’re supposed to do. The beauty of a long to-do list is that when you are feeling overwhelmed or tired, you can basically just throw a dart at that board and all you have to do is that if you’re doing something on that dart board, then you know that you’re taking the right steps.

I mentioned also that keeping visual reminders of your success is really important. So, when a client is sitting on my couch, all of my degrees and everything are framed and hanging in a place in my office where I can see them. It’s not where the client sees them because I – when they’re looking at me, I actually don’t want them just kind of feeling overwhelmed by all of my degrees. But when I look at the client, I see all of those degrees and that helps me to stay focused if I’m kinda saying, “Oh, I need some extra motivation or confidence today.”

So, whether it’s your screensaver on your phone or on your desktop or whatever, I would keep those visual symbols of your reasons for doing what you’re doing; again, if it’s your kids, if it’s your health, whatever it is that is motivating you. And if you don’t know what it is that’s motivating you, then obviously, it would be good to have a goal session and get really clear about it, and then, also to keep some really nice kind of pep talk reminders for yourself. Because as the entrepreneurs, we don’t have a good manager that’s gonna pull us aside and give us a pep talk, so we kinda have to have that readily available for ourselves on-demand.

John: Rome was not built in a day, Fire Nation, have a wish list. Now, Dr. Chloe, how do we keep growing as an entrepreneur?

Dr. Chloe: For myself, I actually do see a therapist-coach every week. So, the person I see actually is also a therapist as well as a coach because, for myself, if I’m having something that’s happening in my personal life, I need someone who also really understands what’s happening in my business life. Because as entrepreneurs I think we all know that it’s not really just a binary thing where it’s like, “Oh, I just clock out of work and then I go home and then there’s my personal life.”

And if we’re fortunate enough to be doing what we love, then there is a childlike passion in that. So, for me, I see a therapist-coach every single week, sometimes twice a week; and I’m really active in the Entrepreneurs’ Organization with my forum and my small group. And when I first joined that group, everybody was like, “Oh, this is really gonna be good for your personal life too,” and I thought I was kinda above that. I was like, “Oh no, I’m a psychologist. I’ve got this part covered. I’m just here to help grow my business.”

But I will say that it’s been incredible. In fact, my forum at Entrepreneurs’ Organization is what gave me the idea to create “Profitable Practices” because they were like, “Chloe, you have so much information. You should just go ahead and put it all out there once and for all.” So, I think it’s very important for us to keep growing to also things like listening to your podcast. And –

John: Aww.

Dr. Chloe: – there’s so many great audiobooks out there as well. Frankly, even when I’m even falling asleep –

John: Yeah.

Dr. Chloe: – sometimes I’ll actually listen to a good inspiring audiobook. And I don’t even worry about it if I fall asleep because that’s the point, I’m falling asleep. But it just kinda sends me off to sleep with a positive, inspired kind of a feeling.

John: And don’t underestimate your subconscious either because it’s still picking those things up, Fire Nation. So, I love that.

Dr. Chloe: Uh-huh, 100%.

John: So, Chloe, you dropped so many value bombs. Give us one, final takeaway you wanna really make sure our listeners get, then give us that final call to action, then we’ll say goodbye.

Dr. Chloe: The big thing, John, that I would encourage anyone out there to do that’s thinking of how can they just really boost up their inspiration and their motivation and their activity all at once is, I would encourage you to create a vision of yourself. And it can be on paper, in words, or it can even be just with images, if you wanna grab them online or from actual magazines. Create some kind of a vision board for yourself that captures all the things that you wanna be as an entrepreneur and as a person, and then, reverse engineer.

So, when you’re putting things and images and words or whatever on that board, you don’t even have to understand exactly why they fit or how you’ll get there; just make a blueprint of what you want, and then reverse engineer backwards and make a list of all the things that you would need to do in order to get there. And then, surround yourself with the right support so that you can move on forward towards that beautiful blueprint that you made for yourself.

John: Love that, and then give us that URL one more time and let us know what we can get when we go there.

Dr. Chloe: Absolutely, John. Anybody that wants to connect with me, I would love to connect; that’s why I’m a psychologist so I absolutely love people. Anyone that wants to connect with me can go to goalattainment.com/fire. And if you are a therapist or coach, you can get a great deal on my program, “Profitable Practices,” for coaches. And if you’re not a coach but you're an entrepreneur and you’d like more of my top tips, I’m giving away for just $1 my video of my Top Tips for Entrepreneurs. And of course, when you’re there there’s some other ways that you can sign up to connect with me even more, which I would love to do. So, thank you again, John, for having me on Fire Nation.

John: You are so welcome. And Fire Nation, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with, and you’ve been hanging out with CC and JLD today. So, keep up the heat and head on over to eofire.com. And if you type “Chloe,” that’s C-H-L-O-E, in the search bar, her show notes page will pop up with everything that we’ve been talking about today. And your call to action, Fire Nation? Goalattainment.com/fire for all that awesomeness that Dr. Chloe just mentioned. Dr. Chloe, thank you for sharing your truth, your genius, your value bombs with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we will catch you on the flip side.

Dr. Chloe: Awesome, John. Thanks.

John: Hey, Fire Nation. JLD jumping in here because I just got a message from Dr. Chloe that said, “JLD, I feel like I let Fire Nation down by missing these three tips that I really wanted to share.” So, I said, “Chloe, go ahead, record the tips, I’ll slide it in at the end. So, here they are, Fire Nation, three more tips from Dr. Chloe, and I hope you enjoy.

Dr. Chloe: John, thank you so much again for letting me call you back with these extra tips. So, at one point when we were talking about breaking the TV barrier, there was something I wanted to add there, which is when you are fortunate enough to break the TV barrier and have a moment where you’re on TV, I encourage you to definitely get a good still shot of yourself on screen. And then , of course, you’ll do the obligatory Facebook post and things like that to make sure you get the post out there and get your message to the world.

But then one extra step that I did is, I would specifically hit the “Promote” button on Facebook, and I would specifically promote those posts where I had a new clip of myself on TV or a new still shot, and I would specifically target those promotions towards New York City casting directors and New York City production houses, so that those people, every single time I had a new clip, they would know.

And that would help me to stay front of mind and really make the most of every single clip that I had. And of course, I would link that clip to my website, to my press page, so that I would always be ready and available for those people. Another thing, John, that we talked about was how to handle challenges. So, another tip that I have for entrepreneurs when it comes to challenges is to be really mindful of your self-talk when you’re having a challenge. Self-talk is just what psychologists call that internal monologue, the way that we talk to ourselves.

And it’s really important that your self-talk has to have the right balance between self-discipline and self-compassion. So, obviously, you have to have a certain amount of self-discipline; you have to be able to take ownership of the mistakes that you made or things that you feel that you could have done differently. On the other hand, though, we also have to have a certain amount of self-compassion because if we skimp too much on the self-compassion and we just beat ourselves up, then it can actually become demotivating and not fun; and that’s when people start to get burnt out.

So, a good rule of thumb when you're thinking about the right kind of self-talk is to think about the self-talk that you would have if you were speaking to a really good friend. Now, a really good friend would mean someone who’s able to take constructive criticism, but you can really talk straight to that person. But at the same time because it’s your friend, you are going to be nice, you are going to be tactful. And so, we want to apply the same standard to ourselves because psychologically that’s the way that’s been shown to help people grow the most and get the best results.

One other tip that I wanted to share, John – I know I said I had two more tips but I actually have three more. So, one other tip I wanted to share is this. Another support that I recommend for entrepreneurs is to actually try to think about having a couple of idle hands available on your stock. So, I know a lot of us are really into having assistants, virtual assistants, and that’s wonderful. And if you already have an assistant that’s great; and possibly even to consider getting another one.

And the reason I’m saying this is because I found that when I was having big ideas or big questions for like, “Oh, I should analyze my data and find out what percentage of my clients return” or “What’s the average lifetime value of a client?” or “What percentage of my clients are male versus female?” and these would be good questions for a business owner to be asking, but even as I was thinking of them I would be aware, “Oh, this is gonna be a big admin burden either on me or on my staff.”

And so, I found that actually made me start to kind of stifle some of the good ideas and the good questions I was having because I was afraid of burdening my staff or myself. And so, one thing that I found was helpful is to actually always hire a little bit more help than I need so that I have the latitude to think of some big projects or some big ideas. Thank you so much again for letting me send you these extra tips, John. I really appreciate it.