0 (2s):
Who's ready to rock today, Fire Nation? JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs On Fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network with great shows like female startup club. Today, we'll be breaking down a wine investment with oh way, no, to drop these value bombs. I rotted Daniel Walker into EOFire studios. Daniel is the head investment arm of Oeno Group recently named the best fine wine investment firm in Europe. Daniel's career started in trading companies, but he soon realized that the world of stocks and shares didn't fully align with his core values. And today Fire Nation, we will define fine wine. We'll talk about to find why, and when it comes to investing, we'll talk about his performance compared to other assets, exit strategies, insurance policies, fraud protection, and so much more.

0 (50s):
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0 (1m 33s):
Turn your small e-commerce business into the next big thing with Klaviyo. Klaviyo is the easy to use email and SMS platform that gives you everything you need to build genuine relationships with your customers. Give it a try with a free account at klaviyo.com/fire. That's Klaviyo.com/fire. Daniel say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with.

1 (2m 4s):
Hey John, how are you doing Fire Nation? It's a privilege to be on the Entrepreneurs On Fire podcast. And yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I hope that there's some information that you guys are interested by, but yeah, it's a great question. I'm glad we're starting off with the small stuff and nothing too deep. So thanks God. What's what, what makes it successful people successful? I guess? Well, I'd like to quote Oscar Wilde and Oscar Wilde once said that we're all laying in the gutter. However, some of us are looking up at the stars and life and success is very much about going through that tunnel. When you you're aware of the old saying that there is a light at the end of that tunnel. Now, for some people that light is nothing more than a flicker and for other people, that light can be a very bright beacon.

1 (2m 50s):
But the interesting thing about progressing through that tunnel is making sure that even when you're in the middle, number one, you're enjoying the ride. Number two, you're enjoying your experiences, but most crucially number three, do not stop until you hit that light. And that's the difference between somebody that's successful and enjoying everything that life has to offer. And some people that unfortunately settle for mediocrity in life. So yeah, that, that would be my ethos, I guess,

0 (3m 15s):
Love that ethos. And I love the fact that you had that quote from Oscar Wilde about starting in the gutter because Fire Nation, myself and Danny were having a little chat pre-interview and, you know, he briefly shared with me his rags to riches story. You know, he didn't just start silver spoon and mouth with like his family owning this wine, you know, orchard or nothing along those lines. He actually had to build up from the bootstraps. So we're actually going to tease potentially having a part two to this episode where we'll circle back and we'll tell Daniel's rags to riches story. So stay tuned on that for sure. But as you know, today's focus is wine investments and that's what we're going to be focusing on here today.

0 (3m 60s):
And for Fire Nation, who's listening, you know, we're very business savvy. We're always looking to diversify our investments, but first off, what is fine wine? How would you Daniel define it,

1 (4m 13s):
Really bring it back to its simple roots. Find wine is investing into a bottle or it could be investing into a case of wine. And the great thing about fine wine is that it represents just 1% of the global wine market, which is worth tens of billions. And we're talking about a huge gargantuan market, but the fine wine aspect of it relates to just 1%, which is minute. So we're talking about a very fine light product, John. And because of that element of it, scarcity, you're always sort of in a supply and demand situation, which of course is the most basic of economic factors it's being consumed at rapid rates, but it's produced in a very limited way.

1 (4m 55s):
So therefore basic economics will dictate that the trajectory of this investment is always moving in the right direction. So it's an incredibly simple investment. When you think about a full, genuine, authentic, full circle cycle, kind of a instrument, that's what fine wine is. It's investing into physical, physical bottles, physical cases.

0 (5m 16s):
Now obviously you're a little prejudice, but we all are in some way, shape or form. So let's talk about diversification a little bit because that is key when it comes to investing. So why in your belief is wine investment, a smart move?

1 (5m 31s):
Why is it prudent to jump off a sinking ship? Why is it prudent to anticipate as opposed to having to react in life? Generally, I think more is lost through indecision and procrastination rather than ever making a wrong decision. So fine wine is about diversification at the moment, we're seeing a huge amount of volatility in the global markets, and that could be due to a politician saying something that he shouldn't, or it could be down to a geopolitical unrest or somebody saying something or doing something that just is going to have a negative effect on your investment. One doesn't have those same pitfalls. It's an impenetrable market. It's very, very simple.

1 (6m 11s):
You see a very smooth gradient and the simple reason for that and why it's a smart move is because you're never going to wake up one morning and find that your fine wine investment has dropped and you've lost 20%. However, a prominent person could say something negative about a company and you may very well be in that situation where you've lost a lot, potentially everything you've worked for. And lots of investors unfortunately have had to experience this during this pandemic. And certainly during the crash of 2008. So wind just really doesn't have those pitfalls. But on that same token to John, it's not one of those investments where it's a get rich quick scheme. You're not going to make a million dollars overnight with its investment.

1 (6m 53s):
But as I say on that same token, you're certainly not going to lose everything that you've worked sometimes your whole life for. Does that make sense?

0 (6m 59s):
Makes a lot of sense. And I love how you broke that down. And I kind of want to get a little more specific though, because you are currently the head of the investment arm of Group and Fire Nation for you listeners that's O E N O O way. Now how specifically can oh way no help us diversify our portfolio to invest in fine wine,

1 (7m 21s):
Getting a little bit more specific, Sally. I mean, we'll let some out in this, you had Warren buffet, Benjamin Graham and Ray Dalio singing, sitting at a table. And you said to them, I'm looking for the perfect stock or the chances of those people getting it right is highly probable because of the requisite education of these gentlemen have, when you come to a Oeno, we have the best and most illustrious figures within the whole sector, working on our client's behalf, we're talking about having first female master of wine, which by the way, for your listeners who perhaps don't know what a master of wine is, it's the highest accolade that one can have in the whole sector. It takes years of practice and hard work to get to that level.

1 (8m 1s):
So we have people of that sort of magnitude working on our client's behalf, but just to break it down a bit more John, so it gives it some real sort of contrast with regards to why it's a smart move. If you think about live X. So live X is the stock market of fine wine. If you look at annualized returns over the last 15 years, you'll see that live X, I either find Y market has produced 13.6% over the last 15 years. Now, if you compare that to the dowel Jones and the S and P 500 Dow Jones over 15 years would have produced. Now, this is excluding dividends. John, I should add would be 7.8%. If you include dividends, it's about 10%. The S and P 500 is about 8% and that's excluded.

1 (8m 44s):
That's incredible. That's excluding dividends. And if you include dividends, the S and P return 10%. So I guess encapsulated what that means is that fine wine has outperformed the second place, which was the S and P 500 by about 3%. So let's just say as a, as a rough estimate on a $10,000 investment over 15 years, that's about four and a half thousand dollars that you would have made within the fine wine market. So the, the great thing about the U S as a market at the moment, John, too, which I think is fantastic. And it's a, it's really, it's quite phenomenal. In fact, is that during the pandemic wine consumption in the United States alone, hit 1 billion. That's with a B billion gallons for the first time in history, providing us with this textbook case of supply and demand in balance driving this dominant market performance.

1 (9m 32s):
So why is it a smart move? Because you know, it's too volatile, it's too precarious, and you've got to go into an investment, John with your 20, 20 vision, not fingers crossed. Does that make sense,

0 (9m 43s):
Makes a lot of sense and Fire Nation? I think that's the exact reason why we have experts in their industry. Come on and talk about each one of their expertise and especially where they're going to be focused on niche industry vertical level. Because now you're getting a great perspective from somebody who's living this every single day. And we're going to actually be talking about exit strategy, because there's going to be some kind of exit strategy. At some point, you know, maybe as generations down the line, we're also gonna be talking about insurance policies, fraud protection, and so much more. When we get back from thanking our sponsors investing as something I've been into and studying for a long time. Now with cryptocurrency making a big splash, it's no wonder investing can be confusing and overwhelming for many.

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0 (11m 7s):
To download the app and sign up that's public.com/eofpod. Fallow for us residents, 18 plus subject to account approval. See public.com/eofpod/disclosures, not investment advice, getting an online business off the ground. Isn't easy. There are a lot of moving pieces when it comes to building an e-commerce brands. So if you find yourself working late, tackling a to-do list, that's a mile long with your fifth cup of coffee by your side. Remember great email. Doesn't have to be complicated. That's what Klaviyo is for Klaviyo is the email and SMS platform built to help e-commerce brands earn more money by creating genuine customer relationships. Once you set up a free Klaviyo account, you can start sending beautiful brand and messages in minutes.

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0 (12m 32s):
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0 (13m 14s):
I mean, I think my audience, some of them are like, well, isn't the exit strategy? Just drinking that wine. I mean, it's fine wine. Like let's just have a party. Let's drink it. Let's have fun. And Hey, maybe some of it, you never know. I mean, that can be part of your enjoyment of life. Part of your investment is you're investing in a fantastic glass or bottle of wine at some point of maybe your entire case. Who knows? We can talk about that, but let's talk about that. Like what does an exit strategy potentially look like when you make an investment like this?

1 (13m 41s):
Any investment can only ever be deemed as good as the exit strategy that it has in place. So the reason why John we're now voted the best fine wine investment company globally at the international investors award, we won that. We've just won Europe, specifying wet wine investment company for the last few years in a row. But that is I think, down to a few different things, but one of which has to be our exit strategy or, or in our case, the multitude of exit strategies that awareness Group has first and foremost, we have around 600 people on a weekly basis that are coming to us to utilize our investment strategies, which is, is incredible. When you think about us being, you know, 10 years ago, a relatively small company, but then we have an industry.

1 (14m 24s):
First, we have something called a Oeno trade. Now a Oeno trade is the arm of a Oeno Group, which directly distributes to wine bars, restaurants, casinos hotels. So not only do you have this open market in which 600 people are looking to buy wine from us, but you also have reference all around the world that are coming to us for their fine wine. The simple reason is because we have the best affiliations, the best relationships we can go straight to source. And we can go directly to the vineyards because of the provenance that we have and the respect that our wine team have at the company. So we have a Oeno trade as a second way to exit the market, but then not the industry first for us was something called a Oeno house.

1 (15m 8s):
So that is a fine wine shop boutique and an entity slap bang in the city of London, where our clients are actually moving their wine out of the market through this wonderful place away. And a house is very much like a wine museum. We have the greatest wines by definition sitting in this one place, belonging to our clients in many cases, and then making really wonderful profits between 10 or in some cases a bit more than that. You know, some cases 30%, we have the RC in a way in our house, which has gone up by talking hundreds of percent. So there's a multitude of exit strategies. And as I say, it's one of the reasons why we're now dealing with such a huge amount of interest and it's while we've got close to 50 million under management now,

0 (15m 52s):
Wow. 50 million under management. And you know, when I think about different investment opportunities, sometimes I'm just like, well, where do I store these products, these services, you know, where do I actually keep this stuff? And you know, of course when you actually have physical ownership of something as good to have insurance in place as well, because who knows if there's going to be a disaster, an earthquake. I mean, I live in Puerto Rico, we have hurricanes all the time. We have flooding, you know, there's fire, there's all these different things. So what are the best practices around this when it comes to insurance policies?

1 (16m 26s):
Yeah. And that's something that obviously you have to be aware of. If you're investing, you know, thousands of dollars into bottles of wine, number one, you want to make sure that that absolutely safe and secure and tucked away and being kept safe. So there's a few ways. Now you mentioned insurance, but you also mentioned storage. So when you invest with our company, one of the things that makes us totally unique is that we deal with everything from entry to the fruition, to the exit of the investment. We deal with your insurance. We deal with your storage. If you want to deliver to your home, to enjoy, you know, for maybe a wedding anniversary or something of that nature, we can arrange that. So really we're taking the fuss out of investing. You don't come to us and need to know everything there is to know about the wine market, because we really, really do that hard work for you.

1 (17m 10s):
It's part of our streamlined process. We, in, in great Britain, we would call this an armchair investment because yeah, it doesn't take a genius to work out what that means, but it essentially means that you get to sit back and let us do the hard work. So in, in England or in the U S we would use a bonded facility. So your wine would sit there and we would simply moving, move it on. If you were using it purely for its investment, you know, if you want to take it home and drink it, then that's, that's yours to do with, as you please, because it's asset backed, of course. But if you want to use it to purely for an investment, which is obviously the reason why most people get involved in this market, it simply sits in a, in a bonded facility, which is protected. And it's also so very,

0 (17m 50s):
Very important. Yeah, there's a lot of things I like about this, and I'm not here to like crap on the art industry, because I think they've got their pros and cons as well, like every industry does, but I do always, I've always hated the practice of like these billionaires buying up the most beautiful pieces of art in the world, and then storing them in facilities where they're never to be seen again, like they're literally bought and sold without ever moving from that facility. So they never see the light of day. And to me, that's kind of really sad because that's the opposite reason to create art is to hide debts, et cetera. But, you know, let's be honest with wine. A wine bottle can be beautiful, but you're not necessarily gonna like hanging on a wall as like a piece of like amazing art. I mean, you can have it here and there and stuff. So to me, it just makes a lot more sense to be storing wine in this manner, because of course you're protecting it from potentially too much sun exposure and all these other areas.

0 (18m 38s):
So this is another reason why I'm liking this opportunity Fire Nation. But I do want to talk about fraud and fraud protection, because this is rampant in every single industry. You can't get away from it, no matter what industry you're in. Talk about this.

1 (18m 54s):
Absolutely it's fundamental when you're investing. I've always said something, which is a philosophy of mine, is that provided you make your investment decisions, John, on three things, which is information and facts and evidence, never gut feeling or emotion, you're not going to get it wrong. So in the wine market, you've got two scenarios here. You've got the fine wine market before the Genesis of a Oeno and you've got the fine wine market after we were created. And one of the things that we've done is we've completely shaken up the market. By number one, we ensure that there's a guarantee of provenance. And that essentially means that you will not be encountered by a counterfeit wine, which was a huge problem in the industry.

1 (19m 36s):
There was price manipulation. Before we came along, there was a lack of authenticity, a lack of transparency. And these were three key areas that we worked tirelessly to make sure that our clients had total peace of mind in knowing that you're buying wine at the right price, whether it's at market value or below it's coming straight from the Chateaux or library stock, meaning that it's not traveled around the world a million times, which is also incredibly important if you're, if you're buying something as expensive as fine wine, but also we have the first and only we're talking globally. We have the first anti-fraud unit, which is headed up by our senior wine buyer. And it really means that it's a possible, we consider it the away, no passport.

1 (20m 18s):
If it's got, if, if a bottle of wine, John has a stumped from a wine, I want it. It means that you have that assurance that you're not buying something, which is, as I say, traveled and being thrown around, you're not buying something that is counterfeit or fake. You're buying something, which is the best it can be. It's got a guarantee of provenance and it's the very, very optimal quality that it could possibly be. And that's fundamental when it comes to us selling you after the market. That's why it's important to invest with the best company you can.

0 (20m 49s):
So, Daniel, I want to hand you the microphone here. I want you to take us home. I mean, what is the one core message theme that you want us to walk away with from this entire interview? And then, you know, we also want to know how we can connect with your company more, any call to action you may have for us. And then we'll say goodbye.

1 (21m 7s):
Do you have to really think about many, many different things? Number one, why do we invest? I think what's more important than making money is always looking after the money. You've worked hard for it. It's so, so key to having a good future and looking after our children, whether that be, you know, going on wonderful vacations or just enjoying the fruits of your labor. If we see the global rate inflation creep up to 5%, then it just makes investing and making money that bit harder. So I think wine has gone from something that was considered a luxurious asset that was only available to the, to the very professional investor, but it's now considered a total necessity.

1 (21m 48s):
John is something that most investors would have to have within their portfolio. Certainly. And I think as we progressed through the markets, the unpredictability of the markets that we're currently seeing in front of us, it's really, really, it's just key that you're making smart, prudent decisions as astute investors. I'm sure your listeners are. So with us, we're not going to bring you on board and tell you that you're gonna make vast sums, but in this day and age where we are, I think John we're in the unknown with regards to this global pandemic, that's just thankfully started to pass. I think it's creating opportunities for opportunists and provided.

1 (22m 28s):
You're working with the right people. And this is what I, I choose to leave your listeners with provided you're working with the right company that has the best interest of the investors at their, at their hearts. You're you're gonna do just fine. And it comes down to due diligence, making sure you're working with the right people, do your research on us as a company. As I say, we always move at our client's pace, not, not our pace. This is something that we've done for years now. So you're able to get in touch with us and, and speak to one of the dedicated account managers at the company. We're a fast growing innovative company. We're based in Tuscany, Bordeaux, new Nick Madrid, New York. And there's never been a better time to get invested into, into the

0 (23m 10s):
Fire Nation. The opportunities are endless and Daniel, if Fire Nation wanted to learn more, if they want to connect with you and your company may be either via social media website, what's the best call to action.

1 (23m 23s):
But for Instagram users, you can just go to a Oeno Group. Our website is a OenoGroup.com. So you can find us there. Yeah. W we're everywhere. I mean, there's articles on us. I was very privileged to recently be written about in Forbes Telegraph. I'm not sure if you guys have that, but there's, there's many, many ways to find this John. So, you know, just Google away, know where

0 (23m 44s):
Right there, Fire Nation. One more time. That's O E N O, O E N O Group. So check it out. And you know, my listeners Fire Nation, that you're the average of the five people you been spending the most time with. You've been hanging out with DW and JLD today. So keep up the heat, head over to EOFire.com, type it Daniel, and the search bar. The show notes page will pop up with everything that we've talked about today. Links to everything and Daniel, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today, for that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Hey, Fire Nation today's value bound content was brought to you by Daniel and Fire Nation.

0 (24m 26s):
If you've ever thought about creating a podcast of your own, the podcast journal is for you. It is gorgeous. It is full leather, and it will guide you. Step-by-step in both the creation and launch of your podcast and 50 days visit the podcastjournal.com and I'll catch you there. Or on the flip side, according to Forbes, companies are working to fill millions of jobs in an epic hiring spree. Where do they turn ZipRecruiter? ZipRecruiter's technology finds qualified candidates. It makes it easy to invite your top choices to apply. Try it free today at ZipRecruiter.com/fire. Start investing with as little as $1 and get a free slice of stock up to $50.

0 (25m 7s):
When you join a public.com/eofpod today, visit public.com/eofpod. To download the app and sign up valid for us residents, 18 plus subject to account approval. See public.com/eofpod/disclosures, not investment advice. Turn your small e-commerce business into the next big thing with Klaviyo. Klaviyo is the easy to use email and SMS platform that gives you everything you need to build genuine relationships with your customers. Give it a try with a free account at klaviyo.com/fire. That's Klaviyo.com/fire.