0 (2s):
Boom, shake the room, Fire Nation JLD here and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network with great shows like my first million today, we'll be focusing on how to use job search sites to your advantage, to drop these value bombs. I brought Ian Siegel into EOFire studios. Ian is ZipRecruiter's CEO, and co-founder leading the organization with data driven, focus on delighting, both job seekers and employers and fundamentally improving the hiring process experience. He is also the wall street journal best-selling author of get hired. Now prior to joining ZipRecruiter, Ian held executive product and technology leadership roles at companies, including city search stamps.com and rent.com.

0 (47s):
And today Fire Nation, we'll be talking about why conventional wisdom of job search no longer applies how art Musha traits translate to the job search process and why you shouldn't network for a job, but network for a relationship and so much more. When we get back from thanking our sponsors, according to Forbes, a lot of businesses are set to go on an epic hiring spree and all of these businesses where you opening these, that millions of jobs will need to be filled. So where do they turn to fill these roles fast ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address. ZipRecruiter.com/fire. That's ZipRecruiter. Fire Nation, are you finally ready to publish a book the right way Kevin Anderson and associates can help for a limited time, they're offering Fire Nation a free 90 minute consultation to discuss writing and publishing your book in just six months.

0 (1m 39s):
Visit KAWriting.com/fire to schedule your free 90 minute consultation today. That's KAWriting.com/fire. Ian say what's up the Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with.

1 (1m 58s):
Hello, John pleasure to be back on the podcast. Something that I believe that you need to be successful is I think a lot of people, they, they think that in order to achieve something, they have to become an expert at something. And really, I feel like the truth is it's a willingness to learn and be uncomfortable with how bad you are at a lot of things, which is what leads to success. And the example I always use is let's say you're a chef and you're a great chef. And you think I want to open a restaurant. Let me tell you something. If you are the chef who opens the restaurant, you will never cook again because your job becomes so many things that have to do with running a restaurant, but nothing to do with the kitchen.

1 (2m 43s):
It's getting a space. It's designing the space. It's hiring people. It's picking the paper for your menu. It's picking your hours, it's picking a payroll system. So I think a lot of people think that they have to become excellent at one thing, in order to justify pursuing their entrepreneurial dream. The reality is you just have to be willing to be a good learner and that the people who are willing to effectively be bad at a bunch of stuff at once, and are able to be comfortable with that. Those are the people who have the right personality set to go be entrepreneurs.

0 (3m 13s):
There's so much value in this Fire Nation. And if you haven't read the book, E-Myth revisited, this is a great book on that topic, really breaking down, like, are you going to be the owner operator or are you going to be the person honing your skills in your craft? And one thing that I love about ZipRecruiter is number one, we've been partners for over five years, which has been fantastic, and just, you know, having the support of ZipRecruiter for our show, but then also, you know, being able to let you Fire Nation know about how awesome ZipRecruiter is for what they do is a great back and forth. And you are always innovating. You're always making it easier to hire and be hired, which is why you said to sit down and write your own book, get hired now.

0 (3m 59s):
So break that down. What is get hired now all about

1 (4m 4s):
Fundamentally get hired. Now is a book that tries to condense down for you. The things you absolutely have to know to be a good job seeker in the modern job market. And the reason I wrote the book is because the advice that you were given up until 10 years ago was great, but just about all of it now hurts your chances rather than helps your chances of finding a job and the people who are teaching you, how to look for work. Haven't caught up with the reality of how the job market is working. And I have sort of a catbird seat where I'm sitting in the front row and I'm watching how employers really hire. And I'm looking at the tools that they're using.

1 (4m 46s):
And there are a bunch of relatively straightforward, easy to observe realities about the job market that I shared in the book. And then I gave very direct prescriptive advice about do this. Don't do that to try and make you good at being a job seeker really in a day or less because this stuff is not that hard. It's just not that well known

0 (5m 8s):
Fire Nation. This is why I love talking to Ian. And I love working with ZipRecruiter because it's black or white. Nothing's gray is going to tell you how to do things, why they're working, why they're knots, and just give you that clear, concise advice that as you just shared, can be consumed and can be implemented in as little as a day. So I got asked this question a lot too, when I launched my book a few months ago, and I'm going to pass this question on to you. Obviously you wrote a lot of chapters and I'm sure you love each one of them for different reasons, but what's one chapter in the book that really stands out to you. And for what reasons,

1 (5m 43s):
It's really the first chapter, because it's my number one piece of advice, because it's the fundamental thing people do not understand about the modern job market, which is at this point 75% or more of the resumes that are submitted as for jobs are read by software before they are read by a human. And the only mission of your resume is to get past that software filter so that an actual human will look at it. That's it. So now you're not writing resumes anymore for people you're writing them for robots. And I explained to you exactly what that means, what the changes are you need to make to your resume so that you pop to the top, because it's now more important that the software be able to interpolate the information that you're providing to determine whether or not you're a candidate that should be handed to a human, because that's the only way you're going to get real consideration for a job.

0 (6m 38s):
I mean, Fire Nation, this one piece of advice could literally change the game for you on your next application, because you'll be one of those few individuals that gets it by the quote unquote robots and the AI to an actual human being. So one thing that you do claim Ian, is that the so-called conventional wisdom of job search. It just no longer applies. So above and beyond what you just shared. What have been the absolute biggest changes in job search.

1 (7m 9s):
A lot of the conventional wisdom starts with the resume, which we were just talking about. And the advice you got was things like use a really unique style so that when someone's sifting through a pile of resumes, your resume pops dress up, your accomplishments, use grandiose descriptions of the things you did. You didn't answer the telephone at the front desk, you were in charge of company communications. All of that is terrible advice, because again, there is some robot out there that is just trying to boil down exactly who you are and what you can do. And the more you try to be special, the more you use a non-standard design, a non-standard font or, or language that doesn't explicitly and directly describe what you did.

1 (7m 52s):
The more you confuse the robot, the robots are not very good at their job. So the only way to help them is to keep everything dead simple. And if you're worried that when it gets past that robot filter and in front of a human, that they're then going to look at it and think that you're a simple person, let me allay those for those fears. The average resume has looked at for less than seven seconds. So even when you get to a human, they don't put a lot of time into it. They're looking for one or two things in that document. And then they're on to the pile of people who are going to get called in for an interview

0 (8m 22s):
Chuckling there for a second, because it just brought me right back to 2006, when I was getting out of the U S army. And I was sitting there with an individual who was helping me with my resume. And those were all the things that he was saying. So Fire Nation, if you want to still be applying 2006 advice, which probably was outdated back then in 2021, I mean, good luck because this is why we're bringing Ian Ian on right now to give you what's working today. What's working now. So before we move on to the next topic, Ian, anything else you want to share about some of the biggest changes that have really taken roots from that old conventional wisdom?

1 (9m 4s):
Yeah. I think that there's a ton of research now that has shown in a multitude of ways that bias permeates literally every part of the hiring process from what happens when your resume is submitted and reviewed to the phone screen. And then most importantly to the in-person interview. And when a lot of people don't realize is that you can't win a job in the first 20 seconds of an interview, but the people who lose the job lose it in the first 20 seconds of the interview. So how you introduce yourself, how from your handshake is whether you make eye contact, all these very simple to do things are either used for you or against you very quickly, and whatever conclusions that person draws.

1 (9m 44s):
It will be almost impossible to change their mind. No law, no matter how long you talked to them from that point forward. So again, in the book, we talk a lot about what modern psychology research has taught has taught us and how you make somebody like you in 20 seconds or less. And I've boiled it down to literally even like, here's the magic sentence you're going to say at the beginning of the interview, no matter what the first question is, this is the first thing you're going to say, because it absolutely gets you off on the right foot. And it starts a conversation. That's going to be a winning conversation for

0 (10m 13s):
You. Fire Nation. You can't win in the first 20 seconds, but boy, oh boy, you can lose. So why not nail those first 20 seconds to at least give yourself a chance? And of course, Ian is going to have the magic sentence for you in his book gets hired now, and we have so much more value around this topic. And more when we get back from thanking our sponsors Fire Nation, do you realize the value being a published author brings to your business? As one of myself, I can honestly say a lot. So if you've ever considered writing a book, but feel like you don't have the time writing ability or idea to make it a success, then I've got great news for you. Kevin Anderson and associates is an industry leading all inclusive book writing firm that can help you go from no book to publish author.

0 (10m 59s):
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0 (11m 54s):
There are some things in life that I like to pick out myself. So I know I've got the ones that are best for me, like an avocado from the markets or my next pair of running shoes. What if you could do the same thing for hiring choose your ideal candidate before they even apply. Now you can thanks to ZipRecruiter's invite to apply. And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/fire. How does invite to apply work? Well when you post a job on ZipRecruiter, they send you the most qualified people for your job. Then you can easily review the candidates and invite your top choices to apply Lauren web S VP of talent acquisition at min doula health raves about ZipRecruiter's invite to apply. She says, I love that feature because we have a much higher follow-through rate. If I invite candidates, it's easy for me and easy for them.

0 (12m 36s):
In fact, according to ZipRecruiter's internal data jobs where employers use ZipRecruiter's invite to apply, get on average two and a half times more candidates, which helps make for a faster hiring process. See for yourself, visit ziprecruiter.com/fire to try ZipRecruiter for free that's ziprecruiter.com/fire. One more time, ziprecruiter.com/fire ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. So Ian we're back in Fire Nation, we are all entrepreneurs. So let's get detailed for our audience. How do entrepreneurship traits translate to the job search process?

1 (13m 11s):
So many people aspire to either a better job or a better life. And I think what really distinguishes a lot of the entrepreneurs that I have met from sort of the average individual, is their thirst to learn and their willingness to do research and to go deep on topics. And I feel like the people who have the most success in a job search are the people who do research on the companies that they're applying to. Cause not only does the research help them apply to the right companies, but that research shows and shows incredibly well. When you get to the actual interview in any interview, what you really want to do is have a conversation, not a Q and a.

1 (13m 55s):
And so if they're just asking you questions and you're just talking about yourself, I guarantee in 90% of cases, you're not going to get that job. But if you are willing to actually learn something about the company or become a user of its product, or do the research on the reviews that have been written online, every one of those is a meaty topic where you can then ask them questions and or workshop with them in the interview. And let me tell you that another thing we learned from the psychological research is that when you get people talking about themselves, you are winning th th the impulse to talk about ourself is so strong. It triggers the same parts of our brain, that sex and chocolate does. So if you want to make your interviewer happy, which then makes them positively inclined towards you, you want to make sure you're talking about subjects, where they have a lot to contribute.

0 (14m 42s):
Wow, Fire Nation research applied to the right company. It's not just about getting the job. This is your life is how you're going to be spending your days. So you want to love the company like the company, believe in the company's mission, its message, do your research. And I love that phrase. You used, Ian, have a conversation. This isn't about Q and a. There'll be there rapid fire. This is a conversation. And I love this part in your book. And I quote don't network for a job network for a relationship. What do you mean by this? And can you give an example or two,

1 (15m 20s):
A lot of people think of networking particular li when they're in a job search as a quest to find work as fast as possible. And really I would encourage people to instead think of it as a quest, to introduce yourself to as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time that you can. And the reason why you want to do this is over and over again. What we see is that it is weak contacts, not strong contacts within a network that lead to employment. And the reason why is obvious. So the people you end up knowing really well, tend to know a lot of the same people you do, and they know a lot of the same opportunities you do.

1 (16m 1s):
So often when somebody gets referred to a job, it's a friend of a friend who is the reason that it works, and here's the crazy thing. And this goes back to bias. The known quantity bias is incredibly powerful. And if there is any, any sort of perception that you are referenced in by a known quantity that will Trump, so many other factors in an interviewer or a team's assessment of who the right final candidate is for a job. So literally just being someone who said, who, who someone on the team can say like, oh yeah, I think I'm connected to them on a social network, or, oh yeah. I think I met them at a conference, or, oh yeah. I have a friend who has worked with them. I'm going to check in with them and see what they say about them.

1 (16m 43s):
That is a significant edge in a job search. So your goal is breadth, not depth. And a lot of people think like if I'm going to network effectively, I need to sit down and have a lunch with somebody and really show off who I am. No, don't do all that. What you want to do is have as many authentic and brief in our counters as you possibly can. And here's my last piece of advice. And I know this is a long answer, but I have a lot to say on this subject, which is, people are excited by only one thing. They're not excited about your potential. They're excited about your momentum. So if you want to get people invested in you or to remember you, you want to tell stories about the momentum you have with something, whether it's a learning a new skill, whether it's something that you've been building that is almost ready to be deployed, whether it was a project that you worked on at a previous company, and now it's going to be available to the public for everybody to see your enthusiasm for something is infectious.

1 (17m 40s):
And so you want to express that as much as you possibly, okay.

0 (17m 44s):
There's so much there. And I hope you're really taking notes, Fire Nation. Cause I know that I am. I mean, I love that phrase, a quest to introduce yourself to as many people as possible, as quickly as you can. I mean, think about it like a quest. You should be thinking about it in that way and build your relationships. They are so powerful and it can make all the difference in the world. They can be that one little thing that just tips the scales in your favor and remember breadth, not depth, be authentic, but be brief. These should be brief interactions so that you can have a lot of them. And I love that whole part about people who are excited about your momentum. So remember to leave people with the thoughts when they interact with you, that you are a person of momentum that you have enthusiasm.

0 (18m 25s):
That really brought me to a Kevin Kelly quote, which I love, which is enthusiasm is worth 25 IQ points. And let me tell you a lot of the people that hire and do it successfully know if they bring people in who are enthusiastic just about life and about things in general, you know, they'll learn the skills, but people that come in and they talk like this, and it's not easy to get any kind of an energy out of them. They're just not going to be bringing the kind of vibe that a lot of companies want to bring to their energetic organizations. So Ian, obviously you dropped a ton more value in your book, get hired now. So fire an issue you need to go to wherever you consume books and check this puppy out.

0 (19m 6s):
But what do you want to leave Fire Nation with as a final value bomb, to make sure that we really get this point that you're about to make from our entire interview, and then the best ways to connect with everything that you have going on at ZipRecruiter. And then we'll say goodbye.

1 (19m 22s):
The thing I want to say to the broad job seeker audience out there is a lot of people have conflated making more money with success and sometimes making more money is success. But if you entirely direct your job search around simply who will pay the most, that is not a great recipe for having a great career. You should be passionate about the work that you do. And if you're not, I would encourage you to take time to reflect because it goes back to that thing. I was just saying before, where you have a doozy agism and momentum, and when you're inspired and excited by what you do, then other people are attracted to, and the best opportunities will come too.

1 (20m 8s):
And I even put a story in the book, that's a classic story to highlight this. It's very brief, but basically a man is walking down a road and he comes across three brick layers who are building something. And he says to the first brick layer, what are you building? The guy says, I'm building a wall. And he says to the second brick layer, what are you building? He says, I'm building a building. And they said to the third bricklayer, what are you building? And the man raises his hands to the sky and says, I am building a cathedral. Now, which of those three would you want to hire be the third guy

0 (20m 39s):
By be the third guy? I mean, come on, enthusiasm's worth 25 IQ points. And believe me, most of us, myself included could 25 more IQ points. So you know, this, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with Ian and JLD today. So keep up that heat, head over to EOFire.com type Ian in the search bar. And the show notes page will pop up with everything we've talked about here today. Ian's been a guest before she listened to that episode as well, which also rocked it. And of course, check out, get hired now for all the obvious reasons from everything we've talked about here today. And Ian, thank you for sharing your truth with Fire Nation today, for that we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side.

0 (21m 22s):
It's been a pleasure. Hey, Fire Nation today's value bomb content was brought to you by Ian and Fire Nation. If you've ever thought about creating a podcast of your very own, the podcast journal is for you. It is gorgeous. It is full leather, and it will guide you step-by-step in the creation and launch of your podcast in just 50 days, five zero visits, the podcast journal.com use promo code podcast for a $15 discounts. And thank you for listening to my podcast and I will catch you there, or I'll catch you on the flip side. According to Forbes, a lot of businesses are set to go on an epic hiring spree and all of these businesses reopening these that millions of jobs will need to be filled. So where do they turn to fill these roles?

0 (22m 2s):
Fast zip recruiter. And right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address. ZipRecruiter.com/fire that's ziprecruiter.com/fire Fire Nation. Are you finally ready to publish a book the right way? Kevin Anderson and associates can help free limited time they're offering Fire Nation a free 90 minute consultation to discuss writing and publishing your book in just six months. Visit KAWriting.com/fire to schedule your free 90 minute consultation today. That's K a writing.com/fire .