0 (2s):
Boom, shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs On Fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network with great shows like Goal Digger. Today, we're pulling a timeless EOFire classic episode from the archives, and we'll be breaking down how to get the attention of anyone using humor and creativity to drop these value bombs. I brought Jon Buchan and to EOFire studios. Jon once wrote a cold email when he was drunk, that changed his life, leading to meetings with some of the world's largest brands. And today for our nation, we'll be talking about how one break can literally change somebody's life altogether and how the right words and the right order to the right people can take you almost anywhere in life and so much more.

0 (49s):
When we get back from thanking our sponsors, have you ever thought about what it takes to make you profit by selling content online? Then you need to join amplify with Thinkific. This free event features 30 plus expert creators who will show you how to make revenue selling content online. Visit thinkific.com/amplify to RSVP for free. The, my first million podcast features famous guests, discusses how companies made their first million and brainstorms new business ideas based on the hottest trends and opportunities in the marketplace. One recent app was all about how venture capitalists make money. Listen to my first million, wherever you get your podcasts. So Jon say what's up to Fire Nation and share something interesting about yourself that most people don't know,

1 (1m 34s):
Greetings Fire Nation. So something about me that people don't know, I started my first business when I was 16. And the reason for that was is when I was a youngster, I had quite the baby face and I needed a fake ID to get sort of beer. So that was my education into learning about design and stuff. And from there I started selling plastic, like business cards to businesses, and that's where I got into SEO and PPC ad to get people to my business. So if I hadn't had a baby face, I probably wouldn't have ended up doing what I'm, what I'm doing now. So everyone used to say, you're going to be happy. You've got a baby face when you're older and they turned out to be,

0 (2m 14s):
I love these little fun facts, Jon, thank you for sharing that and Fire Nation you're reducing today because our audio masterclass is how to get the attention of anyone using humor and creativity. And I can tell you Fire Nation here in 20 18, 20, 19, 20 20, whenever you're listening to this attention is at a premium in using humor. Using creativity is critical in Jon. Here is going to be chatting all about that. Cause that's actually why he's on here today is pretty cool. So let's actually dive right in Jon with how you managed to invite yourself on the revered Entrepreneurs On Fire podcast.

0 (2m 54s):
Let's just dive right in.

1 (2m 55s):
Yeah. Yeah. So I've been doing this for about a year and a half selling information products and having a group called charm offensive on Facebook and having an email list. And I decided it was about time. I've been doing all this clever, like incremental stuff, you know, to grow my audience and to get better at this stuff. But every now and then you've got to take a big leap. You've got to take a chance. And I know that you're one of the biggest entrepreneurial podcasts and I thought I'm going to take a chance. I'm ready now. I've got an offer that I know works really well. I've built up Goodwill and an audience. It's time to take a big shot. So I decided Donna, I think it was last week sometime I decide I'm going to give it a go.

1 (3m 36s):
And I sent you an email and I'm very, very happy to hear to, to, to get a response and to be talking to you now.

0 (3m 43s):
Well, it can sometimes Fire Nation happen just like that. They were going to be getting into specifics of this. I mean, we're going to reverse engineer this stuff. We're going to talk about charming copy. We're going to be doing a lot of things that are really going to be helping you Fire Nation in your business with attention, with copy, with creativity, such critical stuff. So let's just start with a drunk cold email that changed your life. Jon, what was that?

1 (4m 11s):
Excellent. So this might sound a bit like a life story, but I promise it's not. So when I, I had that first business and in 2006, January, 2006, I was depressed and I loved the marketing stuff. I didn't really like printing cause printers the most annoying device on the planet, but I loved marketing. So January, 2006, one week, I just decided I want to move to London. And this was the first cold pitch I ever sent. It actually, won't be the one that we're going to talk about today, but it was essentially, I looked up in Google, online marketing agencies, London, and I just sent a bullet point list of my skills. And I got an interview and a week later I'd moved to London and that's when I started working at online marketing agencies.

1 (4m 53s):
And I basically in the five-year period, I quit my way to the top. You know, I did great work, got great results, then went to another agency. And after a while, about five years, I realized that I think I can do this better myself. I'm mature enough. Now with this, you know, having all this experience, I think I can do it better myself because there were certain things that agencies did that I didn't agree with. So I decided I'm going to put my notice in. And I started my own agency with what was my brother, Gary, and for about a year, it was fine. Cause I had all of the word of mouth leads and I had people I'd contacted that, you know, I used to work with or we're a supplier, but when all of that dried up, I realized, oh, it's easy to run an agency.

1 (5m 33s):
When you've got someone giving you hot leads. You know, I had great business development people. I didn't know how to open cold. I knew how to close deals. I would go in with sales, with sales people and help close. I didn't know how to open. And I had payroll to meet now and I really did not want to disappoint my staff. So I dealt with that. The only way I knew how I got blind drunk and wrote the most absurd cold email I could possibly come up with. And I don't remember much of that evening, but I do remember thinking this has got to be different to what everyone else is sending because even though I offer digital marketing, I would get called emails, offering digital marketing. So I knew what everyone else was saying. And basically in that drunken moment, I'd wrote that email.

1 (6m 19s):
And in the morning I still thought it was a good idea to send that email to very senior people at some of the world's largest brands like red bull, Hewlett Packard, Symantec, PepsiCo. And to my, to my amazement, it worked, I got some of the most complimentary responses back saying things like I never replied to these. I've been in working in this industry for 20 years and I get hundreds of prospecting emails every week. And I haven't replied to a single one until now loads like that. But my favorite one simply read my colleague forwarded me or spam email. And we would like to meet you to discuss opportunities, which I just thought was the most oxymoronic sort of sentence. And then I realized, oh, if I keep sending this every time I press this button, this keeps happening.

1 (7m 3s):
And that's when I realized, oh, I've cracked onto something here. And I realized I could use this for any purpose. So when I won new clients, I could use those same skills to get journalists, to reply to me or to get people to events or all of these other asks that you have to make as a business. I also realized I'm always going to be able to open opportunities for myself now, and that is an amazing place to be. And that's where I like to get, take other people. Cause it's, it's a real great feeling of control.

0 (7m 30s):
So do you mean to tell me that this cold email did not start off with dear sir or Madam

1 (7m 40s):
Liz, even, even worse than that is the ones that start with the infomercial tone. So hi Jon, do you have problems navigating the ever-changing social media landscape? It's just like, I don't know anyone that speaks like that, but that's how we write our emails.

0 (7m 55s):
I just feel like people need to realize that the word Madam just, isn't really a word that we still use in normal conversation. So to everybody listening out there that may have sent a dear sir, or Madam email, which I'm sh I'd be shocked if anybody in Fire Nation has don't do it for obvious reasons. Now, one thing that I've seen, and again, Jon I've had experience with thousands of interviews being interviewed, being pitched, all these different things. I've seen that one, a break and just one break can literally change somebody's life altogether. It can literally be that, that thing where it causes a pivot or an adjustment or whatever it might be, and it can change everything.

0 (8m 36s):
And I'm just talking one break and you got your one break. So let's reverse engineer that accidental drunk cleverness. Let's break it down for Fire Nation,

1 (8m 47s):
Different things. One we've spoken about already, which is it. The tone is completely different. If you look, if you do a Google search for best email template, every pretty much every single one is this same short functional template. And then the logic is that CEOs, et cetera, don't have time to look at emails. They don't have the attention span and you should keep your copy short and you shouldn't use humor and you should use pain points and you should that there was all of these rules. And I was just like, no, I'm just going to make people laugh. So there's a way that my emails are formatted and all of my sort of messaging. And it usually starts with something self-effacing something honest. So my email to you, for example, it starts with the line greetings Jon.

1 (9m 30s):
I wanted to introduce myself in a way that showed. I was interesting, witty and clever alas. I wrote this email instead and it's just a tiny little opener. Another one I used to use. This was actually on my original drunk email was greeting Jon. You've never heard of me. Hi, I'm Jon. I got your details from a list gasp, but Hey, at least you're list worthy. That's got to be worth something, right? So not only mentioning, you know, the fact that we've got the details for less, but caught turning into a compliment, like who starts an email with that? Usually that's something you would avoid talking about, but instead call out the elephant in the room and you will disarm your prospects. So that is a very big part of it. Is that very first line.

1 (10m 12s):
It's got to get you to read the next line.

0 (10m 13s):
It's kind of one thing I want to jump in and say that I found was that just reading the first line of the email that you sent me, brought me to the next line, but that usually is where it ends, because then I'm just like, oh, okay. Yeah, that was, that was witty and clever, but then it kind of gets into the, but then your second line got me to the third, got me to the fourth. Like it just was this waterfall cascading effect. So keep breaking this down for Sean.

1 (10m 35s):
So the actually went on a Kevin Rogers podcast last year when I was starting my group. And he told me my email actually partly kind of used one of his formulas, which is the, the sales hook that he developed from stand-up comedy. But also he said, and this is how generally how it works is it just keeps winning your attention. So I'll make you smile or I'll make you smirk. At least then I can put a little pitch in. Then I'm going to make you laugh again. I want your attention. Then I'm going to put another pitch in. So it kind of gives you this little, like this leeway that you don't have with a normal message. If someone is smiling or laughing, when they're reading your sales message, they're more likely to respond and respond positively.

1 (11m 17s):
And remember you, that is a huge benefit to this stuff. The other thing that's about this approach that is different is I didn't have a study copywriting. And I actually only in the last year, because I've been writing sales pages and stuff, but I never studied copywriting. My background, my background is I used to watch stand up comedy sitcoms, funny movies from the age of about four until 16, till the early hours of the morning, mostly American stand-ups and set comes. And it turns out when I wrote that email and I reverse engineered it, obviously I wasn't using copywriting Cox. I was using joke, formulas, things like the comic, triple the, I saw them. Then I was like, oh, that's what I'm doing. No one else is doing that. And it's a completely different way of writing to people because you're writing to the person rather than the job title.

1 (12m 3s):
Yeah. Usually I'll sugar when I asked for a call. So I say, if you agree to a meeting with me to talk about your digital marketing needs, I will take you for lunch or tequila shots and promise to be somewhat entertaining. If you're lucky, I may even wear a top hat first off. I'd just love to give you some ideas. You're free to steal. Would you be up for a quick call or meeting that basically it's making them an offer that they probably have never heard before. I imagined that my competitors offered them all sorts of fancy lunches and all sorts, but no one offered to take them out for tequila shots. And also the other persuasive part about that is the mention of ideas that they're free to steal. So instead of it appearing like it's going to be hard set. They're going to be hard sell to instead of like, oh, actually I'm going to benefit.

1 (12m 44s):
Even if I never speak to them again, I'm going to get some ideas that might be useful to me. So there's loads and loads of little different persuasive devices in there. I think overall, if I was to sum it up, the tone of these emails is I'm going to level with you. And if I was to do a little one-liner to tell people that they should use this method, that would be B2B. Doesn't have to stand for boring, to boring

0 (13m 7s):
Fire Nation. I love that one phrase. I'm gonna level with you. I mean, when's the last time somebody just looked you and said, I'm going to level with you. I mean, when I hear that, I'm like, all right, this person gets it. They're not gonna waste my time. They're gonna level with me. And they're just going to be real. It's so key than that, B2B, it does not have to be boring. Fire Nation does not have to be boring. And one thing that I've definitely found with you, Jon, is that there are actually many uses of charming copy. So break down a few of those. First off,

1 (13m 35s):
I say that I've got a little phrase that I'd like to try to, which is the right words in the right order to the right. People can take you almost anywhere in life. And this, this type of copy can do a lot of things. So one of the first things is obviously you can get your sales calls and meetings, but there's something more to it than that. It qualifies and disqualifies people based on sense of humor. So you're going to the people that reply, they reply like a friend. They don't reply in corporate tone. They're speaking to you like a friend. That's a huge advantage over your competitors. They're excited to speak to you rather than just a lukewarm agreement. All right, I'll do a call. They're like, I can't, they're actually really excited because you've made them laugh. You've made them smile that they're going to get free ideas and they already have a high opinion of you when people, because you've got cut-through in a clever way, that's very persuasive.

1 (14m 24s):
And whenever they tell people in there that their colleagues they're going to bring up that story. So you can make the best possible first impression with this approach. So one objection that people have is they particularly to my LinkedIn profile. So my profile picture is a clearly photo-shopped I'll admit picture of me rescuing a basket of kittens and a baby from a burning building. And people have said, aren't you worried people are gonna not want to work with you. Cause you're not professional. I say that's not unfortunate side effect. That is a deliberate feature. I I, if people don't like that and they're really offended by it, or if that would probably not going to work together and that's fine, I'm not, they're not bad people, but we're just not a good fit. So that qualification element is really unique to this kind of style based on sense of humor.

1 (15m 9s):
But on top of that, there are also different potential uses for this approach. So I'll give a few examples. Previously. One of my clients was Hewlett Packard, which we weren't using the silly cold email, or at least it got us in the door and they were doing an advance an all day event, which was essentially an all day sales pitch disguised as a seminar. They wanted to senior it directors or chief technology officers at international national and international brands to come to one of their events. And I remember being in a meeting where they were going through the invite, copy the template. And they were asked, they were debating things like, should we say in tomorrow's world or in today's world and all of these inconsequential things.

1 (15m 50s):
And I said, none of this matters, what you need to do is not send a designed email, have it plain text as much as possible and do it in this style, this informal style. And amazingly, I got them to go away to, to agree to it. That when we had the event, they managed to get zero people to the event and we filled it. So even to it directors who people often think they're not going to like humor or finance directors or some other title that people think are not going to like here, but now it works on them too. Another use has been job interviews for my friend. I've done this actually multiple times where my friends that maybe they work in bar jobs or something else, they want to, you know, find a new career. I've done this before, where I've helped them get jobs in the marketing world, help them with the research written a really funny opening cold email.

1 (16m 36s):
And they've got loads of opportunities for job interviews, not job interviews, but in fall opportunities that turned into jobs. You can use it to get journalists, to reply to you and copy your clients. So when we want Symantec, our first gigantic client, we had to get PR coverage for them. We use the same style of the contact journalists. I remember actually that when we worked with Symantec on the first project, we had to impress them because they said, if you don't practice, we're going to get rid of, you have to a quarter. They didn't get any coverage for the content that we'd created. So I went it cause that was their job to take care of the PR we had to do as much as possible we could to support.

1 (17m 16s):
So I went into the office on a, on a Saturday, sent an email to the event, the editor eventually at the time, Dylan tweeny. And I got coverage for them that day and in several other publications. And he actually messaged me on Skype. A few years later, I got chatting to him and he said he was talking to a group of startup founders in San Francisco. Cause he does consultants in there. And he told them about my pitch, which was, which was year four years or five years since I sent it. And he's still talking about it. And loads of other people told me, they said, they're still talking about that email five years later, six years later. And, and obviously another use of that template. It gets you on a big podcasts.

0 (17m 54s):
I mean Fire Nation, as you can see, there are a lot and I've been a lot of uses for charming copy. So it is well worth your time to put in the time, put in the energy, just put in the mental resources to get your skillset up to charming copy level. And one thing that I've definitely seen Jon over and over again is that fancy job titles intimidates. A lot of people. I mean, they just do. People are just like, oh my God, look at all those letters and numbers and acronyms and symbols in front of that person's name or after that person's name. But you look at fancy job titles a little differently. So share your insights with Fire Nation.

1 (18m 35s):
It's an interesting one. I think people put people with very senior job titles on a pedestal. And I think partly that is out of respect and that's fine, but respect shouldn't come at the sake of your personality and you also need to stop being what I've called, job title list, people that are finance directors and it directors, they're not here. These humorless people, and everyone's got a type of person, a job title. They think they are, they know they're going to like humor. Nobody becomes the CEO of say red bull and then says, you know what? I don't like to laugh anymore. That's what I did before I was successful. That is never been said. So you need to remember that these are still people.

1 (19m 17s):
They like silly movies. They've probably got some silly drunk stories. They've probably gotten embarrassing, guilty pleasure music that they listened to. So when you write into people, these are the people you're writing to. Don't jump right to the fancy job title. You write to the person behind it. And often they are, most people are decent, nice people that would like to help someone that's ambitious. And often when you reply, you send messages in their style. They reply in this informal tone and you'll see very quickly, oh it doesn't, it doesn't matter how big the company is. It's the principles are the same. If you're competent and you've got a skill, you can win deals with big companies and small companies, no matter how senior and I'm proof of that.

1 (19m 57s):
When our, when we won Symantec, we had no clients anywhere near the size of Symantec. We had no case studies for the work that we were trying to do, what we wanted to do for them. Yet, we were able to pull it off with enough enthusiasm. We impressed with the first approach. And then we led with enthusiasm and passion and just showed our knowledge and how much we wanted it. And we were able to win it. So you just need to give it a shot because I could have been nervous about sending you an email about trying to get onto the podcast. But I'm very glad that I took that chance. So you got to take the shot, those people with fancy job titles at massive companies, maybe your dream clients, they're still people and you can get their attention by making them laugh.

1 (20m 38s):
Sometimes people don't like that simple approach. We sometimes get hypnotized by complexity. When we realize actually the one of the books that's on your top 15 less how to win friends and influence people. Those principles still apply. It doesn't matter the type of person. And yeah, you need to give it a shot. I would say to anyone, listening to this, now give it a shot email in some of your dream clients, you never know who will reply

0 (21m 6s):
Fire Nation, right? To the people behind their fancy job title, because guess what? That's what they are. They are people. And we have some incredible stuff coming up after the break. When we talking about the right words in the right order about persuasive tactics to close more deals about using charm offensive tactics, Fire Nation, and so much more. When we get back from thanking our sponsor, your customers' experiences, everything. When it comes to building and scaling your business and with multiple customers onboard your marketing team likely has conflicting priorities to juggle. Unfortunately, this means that customer oriented tasks can often fall through the cracks. But what if you had a system that allowed you to bring your customer's experiences to the forefront so that your marketing team isn't stuck in the weeds of operations and can instead focus on building targeted, meaningful campaigns, start giving your customers what they deserve.

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0 (23m 33s):
So Jon we're back and as promised, I want to dive into the right words and the right order, and you have a specific strategy and a specific tactic for this, break it down for us. So

1 (23m 44s):
I always that the right words in the right order to the right people can get you almost anywhere in life, but there's a variable missing from that, which is the right time. There is one way of, there is obviously many ways of finding people at the right time, but I found a very easy way using LinkedIn and LinkedIn's premium option LinkedIn sales navigator with LinkedIn sales navigator, you can search for people using all of the normal search filters, such as job, title, location, keywords, and all of that kind of stuff, whether it's a real important search filter. And it's pretty much the reason I buy the subscription, which is time in role. So you can find people that have, say, say a marketing directors, but they've moved roles in the last 90 days.

1 (24m 25s):
That means they've either been promoted or they've changed jobs. Those people are more likely to

0 (24m 30s):
Want to hear from new talent and hear new ideas than people have been at a company for years, obviously not all the time, but it it's. I've always found that this has worked. If I contact people when they've just had a career change that they've just had, that is a trigger moment where you should try and get in front of them and combined with things like keyword search, where you can pipe type in a very specific keywords to further find your ideal client. Those two things together, that's super powerful, but really the most powerful thing is that less than 90 days search tag, especially if you use the job title founder and then put less than 90 days, essentially, that is a list of startup founders that you can contact and you can contact them. You can sort them by sector and loads of other ways.

0 (25m 10s):
So that, that one search filter it's incredibly valuable, the right words in the right order to the right people at the right time. And you just heard Jon drop LinkedIn sales navigator and specifically people who moved roles in the last 90 days. I mean that one tactic Fire Nation is gold. A and I literally have like nine DS, which is why I strung it out there. And my notes when you were her writing it, when you're talking about that, cause I was like, that is unbelievable Fire Nation. I hope there's some you right now that are like, holy crap. That is literally going to change who I reach out to for the next, who knows how long, because that is an amazing tactics, such a value bomb.

0 (25m 53s):
And let's talk right now, Jon, about an archaic piece of technology to actually reach the most sought after prospects and what I love about this, I have no idea what it's going to be, but I'd love the archaic pieces of technology because they're so often overlooked. So break it down for us.

1 (26m 8s):
I used to send, when I found that my cold email, my drunk call email was so successful. I wanted to increase its effectiveness. I was getting like 40% open rates, but I wanted to be more effective instead of thinking, why don't I send a follow-up sequence for some reason? I just didn't think about that. I thought, oh, I sent, what I can do is cause the original email, it has a very silly sticker attached to the ferret with bunny ears. I was, I said, I thought I'll, I'll send that as a sticker. I'll send a letter in the post with that sticker. And then I will set a follow up message a few days later with the subject line, sorry for the ferritin, the post. And it worked really well, 80% open rates on that follow-up email. And obviously you don't have to be that absurd.

1 (26m 49s):
It does really work, but if you want to do something that maybe is a bit classier and less silly, here's what I'd recommend. Send a handwritten letter. They don't worry if you've got writing like me, which is allegeable, you can, there are companies in the U S and the UK and Canada that enable you to outsource this and you can even choose your handwriting. So what I would say, send a handwritten letter, have it use charming copy and be disarming. And then a few days later you send a followup message that mentions the handwritten letter in the subject line. If you want to include some silly gift in there as well, you can do that, but it's really impressive because when was the last time you got a letter, let alone a handwritten letter, let alone a phony handle it. And letter from a company that has something that could possibly help you.

1 (27m 29s):
You can imagine how persuasive that is. And even if they forget to reply to your letter, because then you know, they're not at a computer, they can't click on another email. They can't click on under the tab. You've got their attention. The follow email will get their attention. Cause they'll know, oh, hundred letter. I instantly know who that is. I have found that to be such an effective technique and people really, really like it because there's something about that little dopamine hit. You get from getting a letter in the post, especially what a handwritten letter. It's very, very, it's inherently charming.

0 (27m 56s):
I'm actually watching the movie yesterday, Pearl Harbor, which came out in 2001. But you know, of course it was about war war too. And there's so many scenes in that movie where people were getting handwritten letters and they were opening it up. I was like, oh my God, like, remember PBS has sent handwritten letters, said that to each other. It never happens anymore. But I mean, financially, let me ask you this question. When's the last time that you, you have received a handwritten letter with your name, hand written on the, to part of your, of that envelope that you haven't opened it. And the answer is probably never, cause you've always opened that letter, that handwritten letter. And I've gotten a lot from you Fire Nation and every single one that comes to me that is handwritten.

0 (28m 36s):
I am opening. And just like Jon said, I get that dopamine hit it's so, so true that Jon let's talk about specific persuasive tactics to close more deals because you know, we're Fire Nation, we're entrepreneurs. We want to close more deals. What are the persuasive tactics you found work best?

1 (28m 53s):
Awesome. Well, I'm going to give three there's loads of these that I've built up over the years of working with salespeople and just building up at an X level of experience. So what I'm going to talk about three and specific specific ones. The first one is enthusiasm, which is the most cost-effective cosmetic available. This is what helps us beat look, bigger agencies. They may have had fancier offices and extensively about a case studies and budgets to take them to fancy lunches. But we went in with pure enthusiasm that I don't think could be replicated. And if you do this, it's can take you anywhere. Like if it's genuine, it is intoxicating as, especially as you're enthusiastic about them doing well.

1 (29m 37s):
That is a really persuasive little take. It seems obvious, but if you, you an actual enthusiasm that can defeat any weapon that your competitor has gotten now, but to Hey, big, they are, it's a great leveler. So that's number one. Number two, this is an interest in one is take a junior with you to sales pitches. I remember when I used to be, when I used to first started doing sales, I was the geeky consultant that they would take along. So there'll be a business development manager or there'd be the CEO or a director and there'll be me. They would really do the pitchy stuff. I would do the, the, the meat. Here's what we're going to do. And I would go through it really enthusiastically. And we would close loads of deals started. My own agency had obviously sent that email, got all of these meetings was closing deals and it, but I realized that I'm not closing as many of that as I used to.

1 (30m 24s):
And I thought about it. I was like, ah, I wonder I started taking some of the junior members of the team with me and we started closing more deals. And I started to realize that even though I was enthusiastic, I was the company owner. So they kind of know that I stand to gain financially if I win this deal. So it's kind of like my love of the craft, even though I've shown it is somewhat solid by the financial incentive. They know it's there. Whereas the junior member of staff, their life, if anything gets harder, it's more work. Yeah. Indies when they show that they really enthusiastic about this pitch, it's seen as the love of the craft and this more persuasive. And then finally, this is one I've. I didn't realize this was persuasive until recently is someone in my charm offensive Facebook group posted a ad, or they asked me first about doing Instagram ad consultancy for people for free in exchange for a case study.

1 (31m 18s):
And when she posted it, it was all about, you know, I'll get you great results, dah, dah, dah. I got into a conversation with her and she said, I just want to damn case study. You know, she's really ambitious, wants to get it. I was like, why don't you put that in the pitch? And I remember I used to do that with when I went to sales meetings, I would say, I really, I want results just as much as you, I can't say to you that I care about your business as much as you all know as much about it, there's no way, but as far as the results, absolutely because I'm going to use this case study to get more bigger clients, additional clients, and to grow. So I have as much in this as you, as you. And this is really persuasive because as much as you can show a love of the craft, you can share. You're a nice person.

1 (31m 59s):
You can show your authority, but there's something persuasive about you talking about something that's self interested, as long as that aligns with the prospect's goals. So if your self-interest wants in that case study, that matches up with, he wants to get great results for us, not just because he wants to help us, but for his own self-interest, there's something really persuasive about that. And I've got customers of mine that have started using it and have said it's been very effective, not only for when you want to just win deals for money, but if you're just starting out and you just want to get case studies, this is really good because it deals with that. Objection. How do I know you're going to work hard? So those are three little different tactics. I've got loads more of these that I've built up over my career, but I thought you'd like those little persuasive snippets there.

0 (32m 45s):
Snippets war again, Fire Nation gold. So, Hey, what's the beauty of podcast. You can press pause. You can take notes. You can go back. You can listen to this again, because so much value's coming through. So journalists talk about charm offensive tactics for getting PR coverage. Break that down for us.

1 (33m 1s):
A simple level. You can just use the same style of email to email journalists and get them to respond to you. But there's something you can go a step further, which is you tap into the mischievous nature of the internet. So BrewDog is a company in the UK international there, they sell craft beer. There was a product they launched. I think it was like 40, 50%. It was the strongest beer in the world at the time. And they got all of this negative publicity from the tabloids. And I think a question was even asked in parliament about this dreadful drink. That's gonna get people to binge drink, et cetera. When really it was a drink for connoisseurs. It wasn't a something that anyone was going to binge with in retaliation to all of this, for all brew dunk released a 1% vehicle nanny state, and that got all of this massive PR coverage.

1 (33m 45s):
So there's an example of being daring and reactive and getting coverage. I did something like this, myself, where I had a client and they were really in a really boring industry serviced office space, trying to find no disrespect to people in the service office space industry. And he had to get links for SEO and PR coverage. So I wrote him just the most outrageous on a brutally honest job advert. I could put it up on his blog. It didn't look particularly nice, contacted some journalists using the charming style. Boom, he'd got some stories about him and some coverage and some links that helped his SEO. Now granted with him, I had full creative control. So I could go pretty extreme with the copy, but it just goes to show, if you can, you can create stories out of anything.

1 (34m 25s):
And there's a huge opportunity because consumer brands do this well, B2B bands don't really do it that well, but anyone can do this. If you can create an interesting story, you can get massive PR coverage that would cost you thousands in advertising or more. If you were to try and pay for it, it's all about creating something that is a story. And that can be as simple as a crazy job advert or some kind of product, but just it's crazy that you've sort of gag product that you've launched. There's loads of these tactics that you can use. And on top of that, there's another tactic I use to improve the chances that any content marketing or a PR campaign that I'm creating will work.

1 (35m 6s):
That is pre-marketing. So instead of just creating a campaign and then blasting it to journalists, when it's created, we ask them early on, we get, we, we tell them our ideas and say, do you think this is a good idea? Would you publish this obviously a little bit more charming than that? And generally you'll get responses back. And if you get enough yeses, you create the big piece of content, whatever it might be, the infographic video, whatever it might be, the only then do you create it? This is just such an efficient way of doing that kind of stuff, because you don't waste money, creating stories or content. That's not going to get published. So there's a few tactics that you can use to get PR coverage. And yeah, the more mischievous you can get the better

0 (35m 48s):
And Fire Nation. This is what I love about this episode is you're getting tactics multiple because you don't know for sure what's going to work. So you need to test, you need to get feedback. You need to adjust and pivot and try something new and try something new. And then when something hits, then you go all in and you amplify that. So that's why I love all the different tactics and tools and tips that Jon's breaking down for us. And Jon, you specifically over the last 18 months have used these specific charming tactics that we've been talking about to build an audience at scale. And you've created your very own niche in the process, which is what really excited me to share with you here today. So you have a pretty irresistible offer for Fire Nation. So kind of talk about those last 18 months, how you've created that audience and the scale and what this irresistible offer is for Fire Nation and bring it home for us.

1 (36m 36s):
Fantastic. So it was March last year, I got myself out of a bad situation. I was very depressed, had some, I had a dark two years and I had some momentum cause I got myself out of this situation and I started the charm offensive group on a whim for years. I was terrified of people seeing, like when people used to put my letters on Twitter, I was like, now people are going to find out like, this is my magic trick. I don't want anyone to know. And then I just, something happened when I was like, no, I think I need to tell the world this stuff, because it's really helpful. People could really benefit like you, even if you don't have a smartphone, you've got a pen and paper. If you can get prospects addresses, you can open opportunities for yourself. So I thought I'm going to, I on a whim, I started the Facebook group.

1 (37m 20s):
People were really curious of the screenshots because it's like cold emails and not meant to get responses. People tend to hate emails. They're not meant to be giving him these gushing compliments. And this made me feel great. I started helping people one-to-one if they posted they were struggling or they posted that they, you know, they were, they didn't have any, you know, they wanted more clients in that first month. I would help them one to one for free. I would give them advice. I would send them my ebook that they usually have to pay for for free. And then those people started getting results. And then they started posting them in the group because it didn't look like bragging. It was more, they were excited and it inspired other people to give this stuff a go. And now I've got this constant stream of social proof. So I don't really have to be hypey because if you go on my group, you can click one of the tags, which is people saying nice things about me.

1 (38m 6s):
And it's literally, you just scroll forever people going. Yep. It worked. I got these screenshots. I've won a new client. It's worked for this. It feels amazing because I get to enjoy the buzz of seeing those responses, but I don't have to take any of the clients on. So I get self-aggrandizing cake and I get to eat it too. So I've been doing this for the last year and a half and it just resonate like within 30 days we're a thousand members. And then I started inviting myself into podcasts, like the Kevin Rogers podcasts, Michael Senoff show and others. And I've been growing incrementally since then. And I, I I'll be honest. I, I I've been loving it. I have never loved a job as much as this. Like just when I check my inbox and I see people saying, oh God, I've got all of these meetings with these big brands with PepsiCo, with startups that people love it.

1 (38m 54s):
I can't it's feels so good. It might sound like I'm being hyperbolic. I promise I'm not. And appearing on this podcast is really the most exciting part of my career. I'll be completely honest because I've been doing all this incremental stuff and I realized I've got to take into the big leap. I've got to take my own advice. And I did that with a cold pitch, which was, which was to you. And I got a reply from you and that is going to change. It might change my life depending on how I'm coming across right now. How's he coming across. It could be an amazing opportunity. And I'm going to capitalize on this on two ways in two ways, one to say, thank you. I'm going to get my audience to share this episode as much as possible. I don't have an audience anywhere near the size of violation yet.

1 (39m 36s):
And, but I'm going to do my best to get it a shared a small and mighty. And I mean, that's where it's at these days, Jon. So I'm excited. Thank you for that. Now that I, even if I don't make a dent in your figures, I just want to show the gesture. I'm going to try because it might make you think they're having me again in the future might not be available. And that's true Kevin, back on because of that, for sure. Fantastic. And on top of that, I'm going to create an absolutely outrageous offer to find nation. Well, two one is the, my blatant bribe of awesome goodies to get you to hand over your email address. So I've created a new pack just for the purposes of persuading financially, to sign up to my email list so you can get your hands on my, and I've called it. My Jon's big Fire Nation moment, goodie bag, which contains a copy of the cold email template I used to get on this podcast.

1 (40m 23s):
Although I suspect that template might not work again on you. You get a copy of the original drunk email template that led to meetings with Hewlett Packard, Symantec, red bull Barclays, and countless of the global blur global brands, plucky startups, and hardworking SMEs. You get my magic email cheat sheet, which runs through the core principles of creating charm offensive style pitch, cold pitches. It covers more than just cold emails. These tactics work for any kind of outbound cold pitch. You get my ebook, how to be somewhat funny. This teaches you joke, formulas, rhetorical devices, and other writing exercises to help you become a more entertaining copywriter stop selling time, which is my book about how to create your own niche, enabling you to sell your expertise at time and a mega super bonus.

1 (41m 4s):
You get a warm, fuzzy feeling for opting into my list, making my numbers go up and feeding my obsession, which I value at priceless. And I regularly go get too excited and give way too much for free to my email list because I just can't really help myself on top of that. If you want that, I, you go to charm hyphen offensive.co.uk forward slash fire that's charm, hyphen offensive, O F F E N S I V e.co.uk forward slash fire. And you can get your hands on all of that stuff. On top of that, I am launching a new coaching service where I've got all of these great courses and these great materials and these great templates.

1 (41m 50s):
I now want to work with a select amount of people and work with them. One-to-one to get them the results they want. So I want to show them how to create their pitch to the world, how to start conversations with their ideal clients using direct mail, cold email, even Facebook ads and other methods. The channel doesn't matter. It's about how to stand out, how to build their influence using cold pitching, to get on podcasts, to get journalists, to reply to them, to book speaking engagements, to start their own Facebook group and grow their own tribe. And then the final module is called conversations to cash, which is all about, Hey, just had go from that response. How do you follow up? How do you do a good sales, a good sales meeting. Hey, do you do a perfect proposal?

1 (42m 30s):
It's going to help you close that deal because as you've said, it's all well and good being able to open deals. We've got to be able to close them too. And if you want to check that out, go to charm hyphen offensive.co.uk forward slash win charm, hyphen offensive.co.uk forward slash win. So those are the two. If you would like the opt-in go to charm hyphen offensive.co.uk forward slash oh God, I forgot it there. Fire Jon life and offense integrity forward slash wire. And you've got all that free stuff. If you're interested in my super cool one-to-one coaching, go to chomp hyphen offensive.co UK forward slash win.

0 (43m 11s):
Okay, cool. You just rocked through that, but now you keep going fast to that last bar. So it's I know it's charm dash offensive dot C o.uk/win and the same thing. Fire Nation charm-offensive.co.uk/fire. And what I'm going to break it down right now. I mean Fire Nation, if you don't at least go to that slash fire, like you've got to check your pulse because that bag of fire goodies is through the roof. I mean, this is why you listen to the end of the episodes. Cause you get these unbelievable free, amazing value goody bags, and this is just next level. So get on over there.

0 (43m 52s):
And then, you know, the slash when it's the exact same, you are able to slash win. It's going to give you more information about maybe working one-on-one with Jon, which by the way, Fire Nation, he is exactly where a lot of you want to be. 18 months ago, he was down in the dumps. Now he's rocking Entrepreneurs On Fire, other great podcasts. He's building communities, he's in touch with a lot of great people. He has a team he's adding value. So believe me, this is a person who could potentially be where you want to be Fire Nation, looking ahead in the future. So explore that option as well. And Jon break it down for us. What's one way you want to end this episode that give us one piece of value and then add anything else you want to add at the I'd

1 (44m 32s):
Like to end on, might sound a bit like a pep talk, but just to reiterate, go for it, try and email some of your dream clients, email some podcasts that you really want to go on. Try if you do a few things each week to try and we try and take a big leap, one of them will pay off. And if you need an example of that, I'm on this podcast and this has been a goal of mine for awhile and I've achieved it. And obviously it's not all about that one email I had to have, you know, an offering had to give value. I had to have a story at, to have something interesting to have you on the, on the, on having on the podcast. But equally, if I hadn't taken that shot, I wouldn't have had this chance. And I have a feeling that hopefully this is going to go very well.

1 (45m 14s):
And thank you so much for having me on Jon. I, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

0 (45m 20s):
Well, it was my pleasure because my heart is warmed when my guests share unbelievable value on the episode. And that's what you did here today, Jon, you dropped so many great value bombs. You gave some real specific tactics. Again, the one that I put nineties at the end of gold, I mean, that was unbelievable. So Fire Nation, I hope you were taking notes. I hope you got as much value as I know that I did as a listener, as I was listening as well, taking notes for sure. And you know, this Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And you've been hanging out with JB and JLD today. So keep up the heat and head over to EOFire.com and type Jon. J O N. That's no H Jon. Jon in the search bar in his show notes page is going to pop up.

0 (46m 5s):
And by the way, I know that, you know, we gave a lot of dashes and dot CEO's and.uk is in there, but we're going to link it all up right in the show notes page for both of the slash fire and slash win. So definitely check that out. Fire Nation, cause all the links to everything we've been talking about today is going to be on the show notes page. And Jon, I just want to say thank you for sharing your truth with Fire Nation today for that brother, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank you very much. Hey, Fire Nation today's value bomb content was brought to you by none other than Jon Buchan. And if you're ready to rock your podcast, check out our Free Podcasting Course, Fire Nation, because I will teach you how to create, how to grow, how to monetize your podcast.

0 (46m 50s):
So go check it out cause it's free and it's awesome. Freepodcastcourse.com. I will catch you there Fire Nation or I'll catch you on the flip side. Have you ever thought about what it takes to make you profit by selling content online? Then you need to join amplify with Thinkific. This free event features 30 plus expert creators who will show you how to make revenue selling content online. Visit thinkific.com/amplify to RSVP for free. The, my first million podcasts features famous guests, discusses how companies made their first million and brainstorms new business ideas based on the hottest trends and opportunities in the marketplace. One recent app was all about how venture capitalists make money.

0 (47m 31s):
Listen to my first million, wherever you get your podcasts.