Jeff Alpaugh: J.L.D., you better believe I'm jacked up. I'm excited. And I am ready to ignite.

John Lee Dumas: Jeff joined the army back in 2008. And in 2016, Jeff got in the lab and started working out the formula for the baddest, most dominant, dangerous clothing company in the history of the planets. His company is called Jeff Alpaugh Custom. He makes custom formal clothing for men and women. And he's famous for making the world's most dangerous dress shirts. He believes you, Fire Nation, should be dangerous. Jeff, take a minute. Fill in some gaps from that intro and give us a little glimpse of your personal life.

Jeff Alpaugh: Well, J.L.D., you absolutely nailed it there. What I do is I'm very passionate about dress shirts. And I know that might seem a little crazy to some folks. But you've got to be a little crazy to do what we do, I believe anyhow. It's just like you're totally passionate about podcasts. And I think that every man should wear dress shirts that are completely custom in both fit and design. And I believe every woman should be wearing things that are dangerous in custom and design as well. And what that means is – if you go to our website, you'll see a lot of shirts. A lot of people are probably sitting around thinking, "What is a dangerous dress shirt?" You go to the website, and you'll know.

And you'll see a lot of different fabrics and a lot of craziness. And sometimes, there are a lot of people – and what we do is we offer hundreds of fabrics. And you can mix and match them however you want so that you can have a pink on the front. It's black on the back. It's red on the left arm. Do you know what I mean? Just totally crazy buttons. However you like it. And we do everything custom. Take 19 measurements for a male and 23 measurements for a female to make sure that it fits perfectly. Yeah. Fits the foundation.

John Lee Dumas: I need some of these dangerous shirts. And by the way, your last name's not super easy to spell. So, a quick little hint for you, Fire Nation. I just did this and it worked. So, Google "the world's most dangerous dress shirts." And Jeff, you're the first result.

Jeff Alpaugh: Boo-yah. I've been working hard on that. We got a few positive Google reviews. And I think folks will notice that.

John Lee Dumas: Love it all. Love it all. And these shirts are amazing. I want to be wearing them now. They're actually perfect for Puerto Rico. Because we do these barbecues and full-moon parties. And come on, we're in the Caribbean and we need to get a little crazy, a little dangerous. I love the style. Love the brands. And Jeff, what would you say within all of this you are an expert in? What is your area of expertise?

Jeff Alpaugh: I'm glad you asked that question, J.L.D. The one thing that I believe that I do better than anyone else on this planet is choosing and designing clothes for people that they will like. But even better than clothes they choose for themselves. And that will transform them to become their best selves. And when I do hook you up with some dangerous dress shirts and you're wearing something like – today, I'm wearing a shirt that I could see J.L.D. wearing.

John Lee Dumas: I could see it too.

Jeff Alpaugh: You know what I mean? I wanted to be ready. And that's why I have this shirt that's pink in the body, blue in the arms, white collar, white cuff.

John Lee Dumas: That sounds like a shirt that's prepared to ignite, if I've ever heard of one.

Jeff Alpaugh: Oh, it is prepared to ignite. In Puerto Rico, people would be getting you. You know? You'd have a lot of people being like, "J.L.D., where did you get that?"

John Lee Dumas: Just people running up to me with coconuts. Just being like, "I just felt the need to give this to you." And I'm like, "Awesome."

Jeff Alpaugh: Totally. Adding value just by showing them how dangerous and excited you are. And so, I believe that's sort of my hidden talent. And I'd love to tell you the story – because I know you are big on stories – of how I gained this power and why I use it, essentially.

John Lee Dumas: Okay. I want to hear the story. But first, just tell me something and, in essence, tell Fire Nation something that we don't know about dressing, and clothes, et cetera that you found. That you think, as entrepreneurs, that we need to know. And don't say something like, "Oh, shirts make the man and the woman" and stuff like that. Because we know that. Tell us something we don't know.

Jeff Alpaugh: We do a thing here where if you get four shirts, you get the fifth shirt for free. And right now, you think I'm about to give you a sales pitch. But I'm not. I need you to hang onto the thought, J.L.D. All right? And the reason we do that is because there's a catch. Okay? So, when J.L.D. goes on the website and he orders his four shirts, he does get a fifth one for free. However, I get to choose that fifth one for you. And the reason for that is because I always choose people shirts that they like better than the shirts they choose for themselves.

John Lee Dumas: Interesting.

Jeff Alpaugh: And that is a guarantee. The reason for that is because most people – and we all have this thing where when you think of yourself, you think of the present. You think of who your friends are, what your job is, how much money you make, how athletic you are. And blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you can only see the present you. But I have measured so many people and spoken with so many people about wardrobe and about their lifestyles and what drives them that I can see who people have the potential to be with the right clothing. And what I've noticed is – and yeah, I'm not going to give you a little one liner.

But I've noticed that if you meet an individual and you get them in the right clothing, they come back time and time again. And they're like, "Jeff, I went to this event. And I got a date." Or "I met my girlfriend." Or, "I had to give this presentation. And you gave me this shirt and I was getting a standing ovation." Or "I got the job." If you give somebody the right clothing, they will feel totally comfortable being themselves. And I think one of the things that comes up in this podcast a lot is essentially limited psychology. And I think one of the reasons for that is people aren't dressed in a way that totally expresses themselves. And to me, that's the essence of being dangerous.

John Lee Dumas: So, you know what I’m taking away from this?

Jeff Alpaugh: Please.

John Lee Dumas: That you need to pick out all five of my shirts. Screw the me choosing four and you picking the fifth. I think you just need to pick all five.

Jeff Alpaugh: You know why that makes me so happy? You're going to go on Google. You're going to Google it again. And you're going to be like, "Wow. Every single guy who's gotten a shirt here ranked it five out of five." Which is a fact. And the happiest people let me choose all five.

John Lee Dumas: Oh, my goodness. Well, I'm going to be one of those happy, happy people.

Jeff Alpaugh: Hey, take the risk. Be dangerous. Let some guy pick five for you. This is all I do every day.

John Lee Dumas: I love it. Well, Jeff, you do have a story to tell us. Now, you did warn me that you have the gift for gab. So, I'm going to in turn warn you, Fire Nation, that Jeff might get going. So, if I end up cutting him off, it's not awkward. It's just because I have to cut him off. But Jeff, take it away, man. Tell us your story.

Jeff Alpaugh: Yeah, J.L.D. Don't confuse the folks. I'm not sure about the gift of gab. I'm definitely a chatty Patty though. I'll give you that.

John Lee Dumas: All right.

Jeff Alpaugh: Yeah. I want to tell Fire Nation the story of how I got where I am or inspired. So, I was 19 years old and I was going to business school. And I was going to business school because I wanted to be an entrepreneur. And at the time, I didn't realize that going to business school actually didn't teach you how to be an entrepreneur. I should've done more research. But that's what I was doing. And for the first time in my – I was in what's called a co-op program. For folks who don't know, it means you study at school one semester and then you work the other semester in an appropriate job matching your field. So, for me, that was the first time I ever had to get a white-collar job.

And a lot of folks listening will think that because I do own the world's most dangerous custom clothing company, that I come from a very bourgeoisie family. And this is passed down from generation to generation. But for me, unfortunately, that's not the case. I'm a little bit of a Great Gatsby where I had to make the whole thing up. Because – like my father for instance, he still wears running shoes with his suits. He's just completely lost in the sauce. And that's where we're at. So, I had to go to a white-collar job interview for the very first time. And I had to get a suit. Which for me, was very exciting because I'm a massive James Bond fan and always have been.

And I was going to get a suit. And I was going to look really cool. You know that feeling? You're like, "Man, I'm getting a suit. How lucky am I?"

John Lee Dumas: I look cool.

Jeff Alpaugh: Yeah. For me, that was just so important and such a big thing. So, we go to the store. And I'm with my dad who is wearing his running shoes with his suit. Just completely lost in the sauce. And we're bopping in. And this guy's like, "Okay. First suit. This is the suit for you." So, I go to the change room. Put it on. I come back out and I'm looking in the mirror. And I want you to picture me just trying to do my coolest James Bond looking in the full-length mirror. And I'm looking at myself. And I'm like, "Okay. I don't know what a suit's supposed to look like. But all I know is I do not look cool." You know? I don't know what's wrong. But I definitely don't look like James Bond. Okay?

But this guy, he hard sells us into this suit. He's like, "No. You've got to understand. This is the suit for you." So, I'm like – we don't know anything. We don't know any better. So, I'm like, "Okay. Sounds good." So, I got my suit and I'm still feeling good about it. Because it's a new suit or whatever. And I go to a bunch of job interviews. And what folks need to understand is that for us, in my school that I was in, hiring a co-op student was a very low risk hire. It's like you work there for three months. You get paid lowest on the totem pole, if you get paid at all. And after three months, if they don't like you, you go back to school and they just never hire you again. Right? It’s not a big risk for these companies.

So, most of my friends got a job on their first, second, or third interview. And I went to 50 interviews. I kept a little tick chart, so I have this stat. And I went to 50 interviews and got no job. Not one person called me back. No one said, "Hey, here's a point to improve." Just I had no jobs. And then eventually, I was talking to my folks. And I told them the situation. And my mom called a family friend. And this guy, he hired me at his accounting firm totally out of pity and sympathy. And so, I was never able to get a job the proper way like everybody else. And I had to do some – you know when you know you're wrong, but you don't know how or why you're wrong? That's where I was at.

Imagine, I'm 19 years old. Everyone's like, "Oh, yeah. I got this sweet job. Blah, blah, blah." And I’m embarrassed to tell my friends I had to call my mom and get help. So, now I'm thinking. I'm like, "Is it the way that I'm speaking? Is it the way that my resume is written? Is it the way that I look?" And somehow, I kind of bead onto that. And I'm thinking, "You know what? I probably could use some help in the dress for success department." So, when I was finished with my co-op term, I went to a store called Harry Rosen. It's be like a Thomas Pink or a Saks in America. Right? I'm Canadian, if folks don't realize that.

So, I go to this store – Harry Rosen – and I was like, "Hey." And I go in my suit, right? And I'm like, "Hey, what do I have to do to get a job here?" And these guys are looking me up and down. And they're like, "Dude. You don't have a chance of getting a job here. Get out of here." And I'll let the cat out of the bag a little bit. I was correct. I did look terrible. And what the problem was is at 19 years old, I was 145 pounds. I was a beanpole. Now, I kept this first suit that individual sold us until I was 25. And when I was 25, I was in the army. And I was about 190 pounds. And as you know, the army has a way of putting a lot of muscle on guys.

So, I put this suit on. And at 190 pounds – almost 50 pounds heavier – it was still too big for me. So, could you imagine a kid in a suit like five times too big for him? And he's already a massive pencil neck. I looked like a clown. So, no matter what I was saying, it just screamed complete incompetence. There is no way for the caveman brain to not think that this guy was totally out to lunch. So, again, I went to the store. And they're like, "Dude, get the hell out of here. Beat it." And I was like, "Okay." And then I went to Moore's. And they also thought that I looked terrible. But they took some sympathy on me there. And they hired me.

And they explained to me a few things. And got me another suit and squared me away. And what I found – at first, I was just so fascinated that I learned a lot of really obvious things about clothing that I didn't know. And it drastically changed the way people treated me wherever I was, for the better. And what I found is people would come into Moore's and they would be terrified. I'm talking visibly scared and nervous. Hands shaking. And the reason for that is because they were in the same situation that I was. Where they'd never had a suit before and they weren't from a place where that was common.

And they thought that we were going to be very snobby to them because they need to get their first suit for a job interview, a wedding, a funeral, whatever. And I would introduce myself and make sure we have a good time. Lots of jokes. Figure out their needs. And then I kind of sort of made up this dress for success 101 course that I just took everyone through. So, people knew how to match their suits with their shirts and had good looks. And then I would just drill them until they could tie a tie. And I found just teaching guys to tie a tie who didn't know how was a massive confidence booster for a lot of men.

And what that resulted in was folks coming back in to tell me how they'd given a great presentation. They got a date. They got the job that they wanted from the interview. And they had all these success stories. But also, people would come in and they'd say, "Hey, I'm looking for Jeff. My buddy, Bob, said Jeff's the man." Or, "My buddy, Bob, says Jeff will sort you out." So, people were coming in who would probably have been scared except for their buddy went through it and knew that if they came to see me, they'd be in good hands. And for me, that was incredibly emotionally rewarding.

And at this time, I hadn't necessarily committed that I was going to be a clothing guy in my own personal business. But I knew that I wanted to have a business that had that transformative effect on people that I was seeing. That when you got people in the right clothing that was suited for them, that people transformed into what we think of as their best selves. So, I knew that would be very important to me. After I graduated school, it was 2007 at this time. And you're a military guy as well. So, you remember in 2007, the Afghanistan campaign was on television an awful lot. So, for me, I wasn't someone who necessarily always wanted to join the military.

But I felt that young men who were fit and patriotic had a duty to join the military. And I felt compelled to. So, my plan was to join the army for a few years and do that thing. And then figure out my own business and that. And I ended up staying a lot longer than I meant to, because I really enjoyed it. But before I was able to get into the military, I went back to that store – Harry Rosen – that I told you about. And I came back and I looked a lot better, and I seemed a lot sharper. And I said, "Hey, do you guys remember me?" And they all did. They're like, "Yeah. We remember you."

And I was like, "Well, I worked at Moore's for the last year and I'm joining the military. But I'd hoped to work here while I'm waiting to join up." And they were like, "You're in." And that's where I really got a lot of my professional training and learned how to measure and make things custom. And do all that to a very high level. For me, the whole point was, I learned a ton about clothing. I was fascinated by it. And I learned that I could kind of transform people for the positive as long as I put them in the right clothing for the right situation.

And for me, making sure I had business that brought about a positive transformation in people became something really important to me and a burning desire for me. That was what I was trying to express there.

John Lee Dumas: What really kind of jumps out to me about what Jeff was talking about is number one; he didn't necessarily have this massive passion or inspiration for clothes when he got into the business. I can equate that with podcasting. I knew that I liked to talk to people. But I didn't have a passion for broadcasting, for podcasting, for all this stuff. But as Jeff became great at what he did, his passion bloomed. Like as I became better as a podcaster, my passion bloomed. And yours can be the same. So, just because you might not be like, "I've wanted to do this since I was a kid" doesn't mean it's not for you.

It means, "Hey, can I add value in this thing? Let me see if my skills can enhance as I go forward. And maybe I like it. Maybe I don't. If I don't, then I shift to something else. If I do, maybe we explore it even more, and more, and more." So, Jeff has some more value bombs that are coming up right after, Fire Nation, we thank our sponsors.

Jeff, fast forward now to how this turned to the creation of what you currently have now?

Jeff Alpaugh: One thing that you know about the military is that you do a lot of walking all night. And I had a lot of time to think about clothing and where it was going. And I often thought that clothing was a bit stagnant. I felt like it just hadn't changed. If you look at where clothing generally is today, it's not much different form the '80s where a man wanted to wear a polo shirt that had a horse or an alligator. And he wanted to say, "Hey, look. I've got this branded shirt that I didn't pay too much for. But I paid enough for. And I look the same as everybody else. I'm in a uniform. I can't be criticized." But to me, we don't live in a time like that now.

I think one of the reasons, for instance, podcasting's taken off so much is because we are all so unique, so different. And we want to express that individuality. And I always wondered why – like, yeah. There's online places you could get custom clothing. But really, they just altered the fit. But there was no place where you could just design a shirt that was totally you. And it could be as wild, outlandish, dangerous as you want it to be. Or it could be as classic as you want it to be. So, one thing I did learn while I was at Harry Rosen that kind of shocked me is I noticed that all the high-end brands that people are familiar with – a lot of Lacoste, and Burberry, and things like that.

I thought all that stuff would be made in France, or England, or Scotland, or Italy. And I found everything was made in Vietnam. So, I thought that was really interesting. And then when I thought it was time for me to start my own business, I recommended to my wife – who is my beautiful business partner and life partner. And she's in it with me 100 percent. I recommended we go on a vacation to Vietnam. And she was like, "Wow. That would be really cool." What she didn't know is that I was plotting the – planting the seeds of our empire. And that plotting might have been a Freudian slip there. So, we go to Vietnam.

And she knows I'm very into clothing. And everywhere I go, I look at the clothing. But there's a lot of tailor shops in Vietnam. So, I'm going and I'm checking them all out. Okay? If you can imagine this. And everyone there thought I was just the most curious tourist they've ever met in their life. One day, I'm at this bus stop in Vietnam, right? And if you can imagine a Greyhound bus stop in Vietnam, it's like chaos. So, there were about 200 people there. And I see this guy. He's about 50 meters away. And he's wearing this shirt. And it was beautiful, and purple, and paisley, and just striking.

So, I said, "Ann, man, we've got to go talk to this guy. Are you seeing him?" And she's like, "Oh, yeah." So, we went up to this guy. And I gave him the knife hand. And I was like, "Hey, dude. That is the most dangerous shirt I have ever seen in my life. Where did you get that?" And that's what I said to him. And you know what? This guy, he was like me. He was a shirt guy. He told me. He was like, "There's this one place in Vietnam. It is just this special place." He's like, "It's very expensive. It's all this stuff. But you can go there and the fabrics they have available are like nothing you've ever seen." And I was like, "I need to go to this holy mecca of clothing." So, we made that the next stop.

And I went there. And I went to a place that was wall-to-wall fabrics. It's hard to explain what it would even be like. Because I don't know if there's anything like that in the west. And basically, the fabrics were so dangerous, so out of control. I spoke to these people. I said, "You know, we need to have – I have this great idea of allowing people to buy shirts like this. But that they get to design themselves." And they said, "Man, you're crazy. But let's do this."

John Lee Dumas: And here we are talking about the world's most dangerous dress shirts. So, do all of your dress shirts get created in Vietnam?

Jeff Alpaugh: Yeah. Every single one of them. The secret sauce to our success is my brother, who's very similar to me. A year younger than me. He's a bit of a long hair don't care world traveler type. And he lived in Southeast Asia for three years. So, when I came up with this concept and I explained to them, I called my brother. And I was like, "James, I've got this amazing idea. And it's going to be crazy. And everyone's going to be into it. But the only way for it to work, I think, is for you to go to Vietnam and stay there for at least a few months and get this off the ground." And he said, "Well, you know what? This is a terrible idea and I don't think it's going to work. But I'll do it." And that's all we needed.

John Lee Dumas: Aw, you need somebody on the ground. I'll tell you. I just think back to producing and getting everything ready for the Mastery Journal and the Freedom Journal. I mean, just having boots on the ground in China for this production was absolutely critical every step of the way. And I can see why that's so, so valuable. So, Jeff, fast forward to today. You are rocking and rolling. You have a lot of cool things going on. What is the final call to action that you want our listeners, Fire Nation, to take?

Jeff Alpaugh: What I would say is – what I was hoping to share is a piece of advice for everyone in Fire Nation. It's something that I've learned along the way. Which I feel like all the advice that you get when you're a startup or an entrepreneur, it's all about competition and things like that. And I'll say, "I' a clothing company. And every other business is a clothing company." And I don't even think about the word competition. I say your biggest key to success is cooperation. If you want to be an entrepreneur today, you need to be thinking of cooperation 100 percent of the time, all the time.

And that means whether it's how can you help the people how are supplying you? How can you help the people who are purchasing from you? How can you help J.L.D. have an awesome podcast? How can you cooperate with others? And I think that's so much more important than the Sun Tzu "Art of War" stuff that everyone's reading about and all that kind of stuff. You know what I’m saying?

John Lee Dumas: I mean, to me, it's all about the mindset of abundance. And that's what you're talking about. We can have two mindsets. A mindset of scarcity where somebody's piece of the pie is going to take away from our piece. Like, "Oh, Jeff sells a shirt. That means I can't sell a shirt." And that's just not the reality, Fire Nation. The reality is we live in this world of abundance. So just embrace it. Have that mindset of abundance. And help each other. I bring people on all the time that have "competing podcasts". Because I don't look at them as competing. I look at them as producing great content. And I want to share their message with my audience as well.

So, have that mindset of abundance is just the right way to live in this world. Because you have those two choices. Why not choose that mindset of abundance? And Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with J.A. and J.L.D. today. So, keep up the heat. Jeff, why don't you give a call to action on where we can find more about you?

Jeff Alpaugh: Please. I'd like to say, anyone who's starting a clothing company or any business, I'm always happy to give advice too. Where you can find us and our dangerous shirts is at JeffAlpaugh.com. And that is J-E-F-F A-L-P-A-U-G-H.com. And if you don't mind, I'm going to throw out my phone number too.

John Lee Dumas: Do it.

Jeff Alpaugh: Because I answer every single email. I've never not answered an email. And I do get a lot. And I answer every single phone call. I'm told my voice mail is fairly entertaining. I'd encourage you to find out for yourself. My phone number is 780-907-2708.

John Lee Dumas: Wow. Fire Nation, I think this is a first on almost 1,700 interviews of somebody giving their personal phone number. So, why don't you take advantage? Find out Jeff's very unique, interesting, entertaining voice message. I know I'm going to. That's 780-907-2708. And if you want to find Jeff on the inter-webs, again, super simple. Just Google "the world's most dangerous dress shirts" and you'll get right to him. He's the first result on that because he's crushing it for all ways, shapes, and forms. And Jeff, I want to thank you, brother, for sharing your journey with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you. And we'll catch you on the flipside.

Jeff Alpaugh: J.L.D., my pleasure. Thank you so much, brother. Keep doing what you're doing.

John Lee Dumas: Hey, Fire Nation. Jeff was a little distraught he didn't get to share his favorite book with you. So, let's cut him in right now.

Jeff Alpaugh: J.L.D., I'll tell you and all the brothers of Fire Nation – brothers and sisters of Fire Nation. The book to read is Shoe Dog, which is the autobiography of Phil Knight, the founder of Nike. I think there's a lot of great books on entrepreneurship out there. But this book is – it's the most raw, pure story. And I learn better from stories than textbooks. It's just one man's journey. And what this book proves is this guy, he's not a genius. He's not super smart. He's not a super sales guy. He's not super charismatic. But he's doggedly determined.

And that one quality is why Nike is a nation state when it started as a guy selling running shoes out of the back of his trunk at high school track meets in a time when running was not cool and trendy like it is today.